Battlegroup Pacific

[Cholmondely Percival IV]

I’ve just had occasion to look at PSC’s web site in search of news about their ‘Nam ‘68 rules (there isn’t any) and while I was there scanned the available Battlegroup sets. I’ve never played BG but my interest in it was piqued around two years ago - possibly longer - by an article in Wargames Illustrated regarding a set for the far-eastern theatre, as this is rather under-represented in wargame rules. Beyond occasionally wondering what had happened to this, I’ve essentially forgotten about it, which it looks as if PSC has also done. Does anyone know whether this is still in the works, and even how close it may be to publication? (Or did I just miss a narrow window for purchasing it? In that case I would have thought it would still be available as POD as most of the older sets are).

[SJWi]

Hi, BG "Pacific" is still available from their website but for some bizarre reason it is hard to locate. When I went via the "Rules" section there were only four products, but eventually I clicked on "WW2" which had I think all of them either in hard copy or PdF. I have Pacific but haven't tried it yet. I finished my Jap infantry a few weeks ago and  am still waiting for some PSC 3D resin vehicles that I ordered in their sale end of August.

[Cholmondely Percival IV]

Thanks. I just searched on YouTube and found some videos, including a flip-through on the WI channel from four years ago. All of this somehow flew under my radar. I remember that in the print article - an interview with the designer, Warwick Kinrade - several changes to the rules system were mentioned that intrigued me, and I’ve been waiting to hear more ever since.

[BeneathALeadMountain]

Cholmondely: I really like Battlegroup as a rules set, well worth a look - it’s gone down very well with every (non-historical and historical loving) gamer I’ve introduced it to at club (mainly mainstream sci-fi and fantasy gamers). Enough complexity to suitably model the setting but easy to pick up and flows very well once you’ve played a little.

In regards to the PSC site IIRC they have recently re-done it and it still seems to be in the teething/sorting it out period (as you said some products are missing or duplicated in different parts). I hope the new forum takes off as the old BG one was excellent.

This is just my thoughts as I don’t subscribe to Facebook and my info comes from PSC emails and hearsay!

Andrew
BeneathALeadMountain

[SJWi]

I would second BG as being an excellent set of rules for combined arms games. I find they give a fun game and can be used for small up to massive battles. One of my mates dislikes the lack of "command and control" as this is really only represented by the orders system, but that is a minor gripe. As with all rules there have been compromises but I think BG scores well on "playability" whilst still feeling quite accurate.

[Cholmondely Percival IV]

Thanks to the above respondents. Like most gamers I have many WWII sets and am wary of investing in a new system that will most likely just be added to the pile. In BG’s case the profusion of books for different theatres has confused the issue somewhat, given that I’m unsure about changes in the system itself. (I realise that there’s a core rules book and that this plus a dedicated theatre book are required but knowing this hasn’t helped me overcome my indecision). My impression of the Pacific War book - based on the above-mentioned interview - was that it introduced significant new concepts to the core system, but I may well have been mistaken about this. In addition the focus on the Far Eastern theatres would help to set it apart from other systems, at least in my mind.

Evidently, the core system has a lot going for it in any case. It would appear that it’s time to be decisive. Yes, decisive - that’s what I’ll be. For sure.

Um…Pacific aside, are there any recommendations for theatre books that stand out in some way, or represent the ‘best’ implementation of the system?

[SJWi]

Cholmondely Percival. The rules themselves are pretty generic and suffice for most "European" theatres. The campaign specific books give some historical background, but are mainly army lists and vehicle/weapon data) There are some "period" specific rules in each one (eg poorer command and control for the Allies in 1939/40 and Soviet force improvements between Barbarossa and 1945). Although I haven't yet played "Pacific" I suspect it is the "most different" due to the very different terrain,  the relative lack of armour, amphibious assets plus the Japanese fighting temperament.  The one book I didn't enjoy was the desert fighting featured in Tobruk. However that may be a personal view.

[Cholmondely Percival IV]

Thank you again, SJWi, for the helpful observations.

BTW my late father, Major E.F. Cholmondely-Percival of 2nd Battalion, Royal N.E. Rifles, served in the North African desert and also disliked it, primarily on account of the limited opportunities for polo. (I have no idea why he joined the infantry.)

Note: EF = entirely fictitious. NE = non-existent. (The remainder is partially true.)

[SJWi]

By the way you ask for recommendations about other nooks/periods. I enjoy the 1939/40 Blitzkrieg book. The kit is quite balanced and a challenge for both sides. The D-Day book is good and again interesting, as is the early E Front offering "Barbarossa". All give a good "combined arms game". I'Ve played the late war Fall of the Reich" from an Eastern Front perspective and found it just a tank fest with lots of artillery. This may be accurate but not the most fun game.

[Gunbird]

Since releasing the first rulebook (Kursk), there have been 3 very minor rules changes and that is it. This isn't GW making books obsolete the minute they hit the shop shelves, or replacing everything every 3 years just to make you buy more Fomo stuff

As mentioned, all theatres come with specific rules (never a too many) to add the flavour of the period. I'm eagerly awaiting Battlefronts delayed Japanese releases so I can get a force started.

I can heartily reccomend the rules, and if all goes well a dedicated Battlegroup publishing forum will come online soon, so it is even easier to pass over Facebook.

[fred]

I’ve enjoyed playing the Battlegroup rules - they are not the simplest rules, but managed to pack in a real WWII feel to the games.

The also managed to successfully incorporate some of the higher level elements quite successfully into what is pretty much a company level game.

A bit more consolidation of the various firing mechanisms would make the rules easier to pick up or explain to new players. But once you’ve played a few games you get the hang of the AP vs HE vs Infantry firing mechanisms.

[SJWi]

PSC are working on a new ruleset which I believe is called "Battlegroup Commander". My guess is that they will simplify infantry combat as they did with NORTHAG, thus speeding up the game and allowing bigger battles. I can't wait as I have a 1/200 WW2 collection for which I have been looking for a decent set of rules for many years.

[Cholmondely Percival IV]

My thanks again to all the respondents. Evidently BG is worthy of serious attention. I await the arrival of BG Commander with particular interest.

[SJWi]

BG has individual figure removal and individual figures fire. It works but is IMHO the "clunkiest" part of the game, especially for armour-heavy games. BG Northag which is aimed at 10mm ( or smaller) has infantry organised in fireteams or support weapon teams. This should work for later WW2 when most nations had several teams per squad/section but may be less applicable to early war infantry units.

[Iain R]

Pretty much echoing what has already been said already, but yeah, if you want a well-crafted game designed by people who care about their product, its accuracy and the enjoyment of its users, rather than just relieving you of more of your money every 2 years or so, then look no further. It's a "serious" WWII game which favours the use of historical tactics, believable lists and the judicious employment of supporting arms on the battlefield, while remaining an enjoyable GAME and not a dry "simulation". It's also a painter/modeller's dream, for all the esoteric and oft-overlooked units and elements one can include!

FoW was my gateway into historical gaming many years ago, but I then drifted away from WWII gaming, BG got me back into it after many years and I wouldn't trade it for anything else.

And if you want a summary of how much it's changed in its entire print run, here you go-



There are no v2, v3, v4, etc with BG. If you have an original first pressing of the rules they're as relevant today as the day you bought them. Once you have the rules, you have them, the theatre books just add army lists for the combatants, extra rules for flavour (which you don't even really have to use if for some reason you didn't want to) and in some cases a replacememt chit set (in reality though only a couple of alterations) to reflect the reality on the ground for that particular theatre. Again, you could still just use the core chit set if you really wanted to...