Rules recommendation for Napoleonics (element = battalion)

[braxenk]

Hello,

Do you have recommendations for a set of rules for Napoleonics.

We've been through Black Powder, Lassalle, and General D'armee 2.

We'd like something straightforward that play well in 5 hours without being a struggle and that indeed has Napoleonic flavor.

I was considering Shako II. I know of Valour and Fortitude, Et Sans resultat, Absolute Emperor, Shadow of the Eagles and Soldiers of Napoleon.

It seems that Napoleonic rules are always too complex for what they do, or too generic to have enough flavor or missing something to feel truly Napoleonic. Is it a never ending quest without real outcome??

Thank for your advice in any case

[JW Boots]

Interesting question, but may I ask one in return? You mention “… enough flavor … feel truly Napoleonic…”. What exactly are you referring to?

Reason I ask is that I am currently designing a ruleset for the period, based on my previous set Der Söldner (mid 14th to mid 17th century), and I too had, I think, your problem. Mine was at the battalion level where I felt modern rules lump too much together so that tactically important differences and details are gone, for example. But also the distance to range and time needed for formation changes are often simply wrong… I think… etc. All this is not for a game with one base per battalion like you mention. However, I am adding a part that could fit that scale… So I am curious to learn more about your struggles for inspiration… hence the question.

[braxenk]

Interesting question, but may I ask one in return? You mention “… enough flavor … feel truly Napoleonic…”. What exactly are you referring to?

We have tried Lassalle 2 by Sam Mustapha. While the rules are elegant and very streamlined, they removed a bit too much and felt more generic than representing enough of the national characteristics.

So it is really a fine balance between too much detail and not enough. I think that for flavor, the armies should feel quite different when played. Maybe by exaggerating a few of the national traits and doctrine. It doesn't have to be realistic but sometime artistic license talks way more than trying to attain reality.

[vtsaogames]

If you are talking about one stand = one battalion, then I presume you aren't talking about column, line, square?
I could be mistaken - it happens every now and then.

[JW Boots]

If you are talking about one stand = one battalion, then I presume you aren't talking about column, line, square?
I could be mistaken - it happens every now and then.

Good point! What I often see is how brigade, or higher, level games tend to represent those higher level units as… units, i.e. behaving as it were battalions, etc. That’s the challenge I am now trying to crack…

[jon_1066]

When you say element is a battalion do you mean a unit?  Ie at the scale as GdA2?  If so what didn’t you like about it?  It seems to tick all your boxes.

[Cat]

Valour & Fortitude is a free download and should hit all your boxes, so definitely worth a look.  There's a how to play vid on YouTube too.

[vtsaogames]

Good point! What I often see is how brigade, or higher, level games tend to represent those higher level units as… units, i.e. behaving as it were battalions, etc. That’s the challenge I am now trying to crack…

I've been using Bloody Big Battles for grand tactical Napoleonic games. Each base might represent 1,000 troops or 24 guns, although the game works with representation at larger (2,000+) and also smaller amounts (500). Basic units are usually brigades or divisions, sometimes small corps. The rules were originally aimed at mid 19th century battles, Franco-Prussian War being a typical example. But smoothbore muskets and artillery are in the mix and just three small tweaks are needed for 1792-1815 games.

Infantry and cavalry units can be in three formations: line (single rank of bases), deep  (double rank of bases) and road column (single file of bases). Artillery is either deployed or limbered. Some units may have skirmish bases, which improve firing and make the unit a harder target.

It may well be too abstract for some. I have two AARS, one of Aspern-Essling https://corlearshookfencibles.blogspot.com/2024/11/aspern-essling-revdux-via-bloody-big.html and my in-process Quatre Bras https://corlearshookfencibles.blogspot.com/2023/12/quatre-bras-iii-bloody-big-battles-or.html

Both games played for about 4 hours or less. Aspern-Essling not complete due to theatre tickets...

Don't know if this is what you're seeking.

[braxenk]

Sorry, I have not explained myself well. We are looking for the same scale as Lassalle and General d'Armee where the manoeuvering element is a Battalion.

We have tried Lassalle, and General d'Armee already.

[vtsaogames]

Ah, I was thinking element as in DBX games, where each base is an element. Basic unit is a battalion and fast play, I'd suggest Valour & Fortitude. Free download from the Perry brothers. You'll need a lot of D6.

here's an AAR of a small game https://corlearshookfencibles.blogspot.com/2023/04/valour-fortitude-village-assault-one.html

[JW Boots]

Allow me to also share a link to an AAR of a recent test game… https://tabletopmatrixwargames689972109.wordpress.com/2025/03/15/blog-63-derlons-attack-now-the-real-deal/

I also add a link to another blog what has a review of Der Söldner, so you may get an impression of the mechanics: https://pijlieblog.blogspot.com/search/label/Der%20Soldner

As I mentioned, this is in development, won’t be ready next week, nor next month, but I am posting reports when I have one and perhaps you might want to stay posted…

[bluewillow]

I tried Blucher, was not happy with that, then switched to Bloody Big Battles, very happy with them.

Cheers
Matt

[freerangeegg]

Emperor of the Battlefield rules are designed to let you play a corps sized game in a few hours.
https://emperorofthebattlefield.com/
They might be what you're after.

[jon_1066]

Sorry, I have not explained myself well. We are looking for the same scale as Lassalle and General d'Armee where the manoeuvering element is a Battalion.

We have tried Lassalle, and General d'Armee already.

What didn’t you like about GdA2?  It is hard to recommend a different rule set without knowing why you didn’t like the current ones.  Ultimately V&F is pretty similar to BP, most games at this scale are ultimately doing a similar thing.  Do you not like the variable activations?  Was GdA2 too complex?  Too simple?

[vtsaogames]

... It is hard to recommend a different rule set without knowing why you didn’t like the current ones.  Ultimately V&F is pretty similar to BP, most games at this scale are ultimately doing a similar thing...

Not that you asked me, but my beef with Black Powder was based on a game of Hobkirk's Hill 1781 played in a London pub some years back. Some other players were irked by units not being able to move at times. That doesn't bother me at all. My problem was seeing small cavalry forces attack large enemy infantry forces. When the cavalry, having lost the melee, passed morale, both sides were left in contact. This allowed two small forces to hold up much larger forces for two or three turns. I figure such cavalry charges would be short-lived, win or lose. For that matter, the only prolonged infantry close-quarter fights I can recall involved fortifications of some sort, usually where the defenders had no retreat possible and death the only choice if the attack wasn't repulsed. V&F doesn't have this issue: melee is resolved in one turn.