Warlord discontinuing 2000ad range

[Funkmachine7]

The question isn't how rich or deep the background is (and it undoubtedly is) but how many *wargamers* are prepared to buy all those models.
Without a big film or TV series you are essentially looking at a Venn Diagram of Dredd fans and wargamers and my gut is that the cross over isn't as big as people may think and it isn't big enough to justify the expense and licence fees required to produce all those extra models.
A decent number of folk buy the initial game, subsets of that but the less central models and you very rapidly get to a place where you're selling less than a hundred Judge Giant versus several thousand JD.
Those supplementary figures aren't increasing your audience - the people who buy the initial release are the *entire* audience. After that it's basically fan service and the maths for that soon become untenable.
This is true of almost any nerd/niche IP outside the behemoths like Star Wars and LotR.

I think that the lack of mass sales is another problem, do i need more then two of any character?
In the big selling wargames theirs a level of mass that the games incentives, you need another tank, more orcs or space marines etc.
And Judge Dredd doesn't really have that, most story's are smaller skirmish scale.

So with lower smaller sales, its rights cost is likely just too high for there to be enough profit once warlords fixed costs of design, production an retail are take out.

Maybe that warlord have just run the numbers and doing there own thing might just have a better return from the greater margins.

[manic _miner]

 Good ,points that have been made so far.

 I think lack of a regular release is one of the problems too.

 Having new stuff coming out every month or so keeps interest and makes others look at the game too.Showing off miniatures that are made created more interest but then no news on when or if they would be released.

 Another thing to consider is the amount of product ranges Warlord have on the go.Which factors into the stock being kept for them all.

 Maybe with the New Konflikt 47 coming out they are down sizing or taking a break from the 2000AD stuff.

 Fingers crossed that we see the ranges come back with the rest of the ABC Warrior miniatures and the Sov Judges and other pieces that have been shown.

[Mammoth miniatures]

The problem comes from trying to make a game for each universe. Look at marvel crisis protocol, or heroclix - they have ONE system that allows you to use ALL the characters from that universe, and as a result means you can expand the game far far easier without relying on duplicates.

warlord like the big box style of games, so they made each system its own thing despite them largely using similar mechanics. They also tried to make them into mid size skirmish systems rather than purely character driven narrative games. the result is that whilst there's lots from each individual universe to draw from, you quickly run out of the big name characters.

My "I need this to make money" pitch for a 2000AD game would be a shared universe with some sort of bridging narrative (the death dimension has collapsed into all realities/the norts have invaded the multiverse/devlin waugh has accidently opened up a portal through time etc) then you can sell figures of every character you like - Dredd, Nikolai dante, Slaine, Stickleback, Johnny alpha, Nort troopers, etc etc etc - really plum the depths of the 2000AD back catalogue, and have each one be useable against the others. you could have a "pure" format game in which you only use characters from certain universes/storylines/eras of the comic, but the default game style would be a all vs all beat em up with some narrative hooks. Maybe each character miniature could come with a "plot" card, and there could be a mechanic pre game to decide hat the narrative and objectives are, giving mass variety to the game. not everyone will want a miniature of a no name brit cit judge, but a pure judge Dredd collector will, and so will a completionist, and so will a player that wants to add more narrative variety to their gameplay by collecting the cards.

It also helps keep a sustainable rate of releases - rather than needing to balance faction releases you can simple release single character minis at regular intervals and let players put together the collections they want, because your game is built around open format groupings of characters.

You need a way to allow customers to buy the miniatures of the characters they like, whilst also having the room to expand the game with new miniatures - heroclix figured this out 20 years ago. X-wing (prior to it being killed off) figured this out.

[Rick]

On the one hand, the 'Helter Skelter' storyline (and boardgame!) would probably offer just that opportunity to field a grab-bag from all over the 2000ad franchise. On the other hand, it would be an appalling mess and a complete waste of an opportunity - I prefer the system Warlord began, having one core rule set but fine-tuned to each of the ranges (so yes it is possible to field Johnny Alpha or the Stix brothers in the Big Meg) and sets of figures for each. I don't think Warlord made the most of the games - starting in metal, then switching to resin, starting in one scale then switching to a larger one part way through the range does little to encourage buyers. I really liked the Strontium Dog rules and figures, just wish they'd made more.

[Kommando_J]

It being so character based probably didn't help over more generic 'yourdudes' skirmish games, I am also told that the ABC warrior starter had something like 3 preorders out of 2000 produced - hence it going on sale before it had even released.

[Rick]

It being so character based probably didn't help over more generic 'yourdudes' skirmish games, I am also told that the ABC warrior starter had something like 3 preorders out of 2000 produced - hence it going on sale before it had even released.

Both the Strontium Dog and Judge Dredd games had a fairly decent mix of a few characters and a few generic figures - in fact, the SD rulebook gave you all the rules to create your own heroes and villains without needing the set characters at all (although it would be a shame not to use them!).
I don't think I'd describe them as being 'so character based' although I haven't seen either the ABC Warriors or Slaine books.

[Pacific]

Very sad to hear this. Always wanted to get hold of the Slaine minis in particular - better make sure I do now in case they disappear entirely!

I have read this is eventually the fate of all licensed games, unless they are extremely popular? Eventually the incoming money from the range drops below the ongoing license costs, and it makes no sense to carry on selling it.

I am not sure how Rebellion/2000AD will be better served by Mongoose than Warlord, but there we go.

[Rick]

Very sad to hear this. Always wanted to get hold of the Slaine minis in particular - better make sure I do now in case they disappear entirely!

I have read this is eventually the fate of all licensed games, unless they are extremely popular? Eventually the incoming money from the range drops below the ongoing license costs, and it makes no sense to carry on selling it.

I am not sure how Rebellion/2000AD will be better served by Mongoose than Warlord, but there we go.

Rebellion/2000AD are NOT going to be served by Mongoose or Wargames Atlantic. Mongoose and Wargames Atlantic are partnering up to release a 2300AD line of miniatures - from the Traveller spinoff rpg, nothing whatsoever to do with Rebellion/2000AD.
Anyway, the information to hand does not mention Warlord losing the licence, just that they were stopping producing the games. In actual fact, as one poster mentions, Warlord teased that the figures were going only in their present form, which may infer that Warlord may release them as a different game in the future.

[Mallo]

Rebellion/2000AD are NOT going to be served by Mongoose or Wargames Atlantic. Mongoose and Wargames Atlantic are partnering up to release a 2300AD line of miniatures - from the Traveller spinoff rpg, nothing whatsoever to do with Rebellion/2000AD.
Anyway, the information to hand does not mention Warlord losing the licence, just that they were stopping producing the games. In actual fact, as one poster mentions, Warlord teased that the figures were going only in their present form, which may infer that Warlord may release them as a different game in the future.

The email today, the wording has changed back to 'being retired', rather than the 'being retired for now' so looks like they lost the license for good.

Who knows for sure though, as usual these companies are never very transparent as they haggle over licenses and use word play to keep consumers guessing.

The only thing we know for sure is that the range has 5 days left right now. Then no more 2000ad game yet again. 

[Tactalvanic]

As much as I loved the comics, growing up and longer after.. I have never yet been convinced any company would bring any of the strips to a game format with miniatures successfully.

I am tempted to pick up some judges to do a Stargrave crew, do my own judge child style campaign.

I will give them their due, they did give it a try..

[HerbertTarkel]

As much as I loved the comics, growing up and longer after.. I have never yet been convinced any company would bring any of the strips to a game format with miniatures successfully.

I am tempted to pick up some judges to do a Stargrave crew, do my own judge child style campaign.

I will give them their due, they did give it a try..

Yeah, they tried.

Didn’t Wargames Foundry have the range prior?

[Rick]

Yeah, they tried.

Didn’t Wargames Foundry have the range prior?

Wargames Foundry did have a 2000AD range (I know, I picked up some of the SD and Dredd figures) which was a different size to the licensed Mongoose Dredd range, which Warlord took over producing as co-licensee. Warlord then took over the license entirely, sold all of the Mongoose moulds, sent C&D letters to Foundry, closing their range down and then starting their own range.
If Wargames Foundry kept the moulds and/or masters, they could quietly start up again! 

[manic _miner]

 Snuck in another order Today after getting a refund through.
 Now to see if i can find any pennies down the back of the sofa.

[HerbertTarkel]

Wargames Foundry did have a 2000AD range (I know, I picked up some of the SD and Dredd figures) which was a different size to the licensed Mongoose Dredd range, which Warlord took over producing as co-licensee. Warlord then took over the license entirely, sold all of the Mongoose moulds, sent C&D letters to Foundry, closing their range down and then starting their own range.
If Wargames Foundry kept the moulds and/or masters, they could quietly start up again! 

That would be something … 

Always liked Foundry stuff.

[Rick]

Well I picked up a few of the Indy Heroclix 2000ad figures and, oddly enough, there is a bit of a Foundry vibe with them - not the exact same poses but the design of the figures does remind me of the Foundry ones.