cold war french : CE camo scheme on vehicles

[sundayhero]

Hi,

I received my french 6mm cold war (198x) army. I'm wondering if I should paint the vehicles with the famous french CE ("centre europe") camo ?  I've seen both plain green tanks and ce camo painted tanks, wich one scheme is more accurate ?

thank you !

[carlos marighela]

If you are wanting to depict French armour during the Cold War, ie up to the end of 1989, you should go with plain green (vert armée). The French really started using the NATO three colour scheme from the 90s onwards.

This article has a lot of photos, including colour photos of French armour in West Germany and in West Berlin in the 1970s and 1980s.

https://www.milinfo.org/ffa

[sundayhero]

thank you for your answer. According to Wikipedia, apparently the CE camo scheme appeared in 1986




According to you, I understand that this camo was rare until 90's...on a wargaming point of view, using this specific painting scheme would help to distinguish the models in 6mm scale. And it should be interesting to paint too.  I don't know...Accuracy or fun and playability... 

[Jemima Fawr]

I've been trying to post this flippn' reply since yesterday, but the current forum bug has frustrated me thus far, so here goes nothing...

In Exercise 'Bold Sparrow 87', the light armoured and airborne units of the French FAR (Rapid Action Forces Corps) were completely tricked out in the new camo, with only the helicopters retaining the plain olive green scheme.  That said, plain olive green vehicles could still be seen well into the 2000s.

On the German side of the exercise, it was a rough 50/50 split of camo to non-camo.

[sultanbev]

I'd agree with the 1987 statement, having been asked this before, it's plain green Humbrol 102 unless you are representing 1987 or later, in which case you can have either scheme.

[sundayhero]

thank you both for your help. I think I'll try the camo CE...we'll see what happens !

[Ultravanillasmurf]

In Exercise 'Bold Sparrow 87', the light armoured and airborne units of the French FAR (Rapid Action Forces Corps) were completely tricked out in the new camo, with only the helicopters retaining the plain olive green scheme.  That said, plain olive green vehicles could still be seen well into the 2000s.

On the German side of the exercise, it was a rough 50/50 split of camo to non-camo.

https://www.tankograd.com/cms/website.php?id=/en/Panzerschlacht-in-Sueddeutschland-Kecker-Spatz-87.htm
I have a copy somewhere, but there is a Leopard in camo in the page selection on the site.

[SJWi]

A similar story to Jemima, the "forum bug" has prevented me from reading this until now. My only contribution is a french language booklet I picked up at the Saumur Tank Museum dated 1988, so the photos would have been earlier ( 1986/87?).  The colour photos show APCs and armoured cars in the three-tone camo scheme and also vehicles in the overall olive green, so I would say from '87 onwards you are free to choose and/or mix. I do recall driving through Saumur with my wife and seeing lots of lorries in the natty new scheme. We were on holiday in Normandy and Brittany and after a week of beaches, museums and bunkers she had asked for a romantic day's drive to the Loire Valley. Shame for her that she wasn't more specific than that....   

[carlos marighela]

Matter of taste, I suppose. With the 3 colour NATO scheme, you are basically aiming for the last two years of the Cold War. With vert armée you cover the whole decade and indeed the preceding decades as not everything had been repainted by the time the Soviet Union went tits up. Similar deal with the Yanks. Plenty of their kit, still floating around in Forest Green and even MERDC at the end of the Cold War.

Still, whatever looks best to you. Your toys, your choice.

[sundayhero]

THank you, it makes sense...Painting process would be a way faster in plain green too 

What kind of green it is ? any reference ? thanks

edit : I found this :

https://www.oupsmodel.com/ak-peintures-acryliques-3eme-generation/83065-ak-interactive-peinture-acrylique-3g-ak11364-vert-armee-francaise-17ml-afv-8435568310278.html

otherwise I've got a good collection of greens to pick...








EDIT : I just remembered that I already bought the Camo CE paint triad from MIG :

MIG 064 earth brown
MIG 060 pale green
black

Is the green the same in the previous plain green painting and in the CAMO CE triad ?

[carlos marighela]

No, it's the same as the colour used in the NATO three colour scheme, it's actually more of an olive drab.  Pretty much any of the olive drabs out there should do the job.

[sundayhero]

ok, it's a way darker than the green in the mig paint triad, then. THank you !

[sundayhero]

I found some olive drab in my revell aquacolor range (36142). Definitly not the green from the CE camo triad ! Now I have to make my choice...plain olive drab or camouflage.

[Jemima Fawr]

No, it's the same as the colour used in the NATO three colour scheme, it's actually more of an olive drab.  Pretty much any of the olive drabs out there should do the job.

I'd tend to disagree.  I was looking at French Army vehicles in Normandy during the 65th Anniversary in 2009 (even showering in one of them!) and the green was a surprisingly bright grass green, akin to Humbrol 80.  The green was much brighter than the relatively dark green of the US Army 3-colour vehicles that were also knocking around Normandy at the same time and much brighter than the plain green RAF 4-tonner I'd arrived in.

[carlos marighela]

I think a spot of confusion has arisen at this point. I quite agree about the bright green in the three colour scheme. I painted a number of VABs and VBLs a while ago.

I was referring the olive green vert armée that preceded that scheme. While the camera sometimes lies and a combination of the vaguaries of colour photography, weathering etc, can show a range of greens from greyish, through solid green to a brownish hue, the associated RAL number is for a definite olive green.

LAF isn't playing the game for me photo posting wise but if you scroll down about halfway you'll see a range of French vehicles participating in the annual Allied Forces Parade in West Berlin. This is from around 1981/82. The parade photos show clean vehicles and are well lit and in natural sunshine, so make a useful reference. The colour on all is pretty much like the old US OD. Actually, you can compare and contrast with US tanks shown on that same parade. The US Berlin Brigade clearly went in for a lot more bull than it's allies as they oiled the surface, making theirs look darker and shinier (the US Berlin Brigade was still using plain OD on all its vehicles).

https://www.milinfo.org/ffa