Warlord's new Italian Wars supplement and Swiss in 28 mm

[carlos marighela]

I quite like that one. Catweazle meets Ed Sheeran and wearing a leopard print blouse.

[Legiox217]

I think a lot of "damage" has been done to the early Italian Wars Swiss by tow things: 1) people repeating that they were less fancy than Landsknechts (which is not a definite truth and certainly false by the later stages), and 2) people constantly using Perry plastics mercenaries to make them.

 I must confess, and add a 3rd anecdotal trip up I am/was having - constantly misremembering the 1474-77 Burgundian Wars involving the Swiss.
 Despite my subconscious trying to convince me that somehow those Swiss were part of the earliest Italian War, they are decidedly not! Now I am even more interested in the Swiss than I was before, as I sort of glossed over that 1494-95 war, or lumped it in with something else, because my head was so engulfed with WotR related topics, I have a bit of catching up to do from Stoke to first two decades of 16thc.

 I'm interested in learning how they evolved, especially from the Burgundian Wars up to the first Italian War - I'll have to crack a book on them soon. I now also note the lack of coverage for that specific era.. Thanks Max.

[Ninefingers]

The main problem with WG is that their sculpts are so inconsistent, even across the same range. I've got some of the original "Bolt Action" Paul Hicks sculpted Soviets, and I'm never getting rid of them for love nor money.

[Kommando_J]

As much as I love a good warlord bash, their Polish sculptor does some quite decent sculpts, the new guy and the guy that does everything in 32mm (Sano)...no clue whats going on there, just how could anyone look at those sculpts and think they were fit to sell.

Ordinarily id be ecstatic if warlord went back to metal...not if this is the new quality going forward.

Also will the rest of the paul hicks war of religion range get a release? Iirc their are still some outstanding sculpts.

[NurgleHH]

One thing everyone can count on: Warlord is popular, but their sculpts will be crap.

There’s no real easy way around it: they’ve bought themselves a seat “at the table”, especially with Dolt Action, but their sculpts are AWFUL.

They had great Hicks sculpts, beheaded them, gave them to Wotjek their onboard “sculptor” and … he CANNOT sculpt. At all.

Terrible faces
Massive hands
Weirdo weapons

Warlord is … like GW but with no talent. It’s THAT BAD.

In a part f Warlords ranges you are right, but the Landsknecht-Range is bought and not made by Warlord games.

[traveller]

Why bother, both Perry, Artizan, Foundry and Steel Fist have good Swiss ranges and I guess any landsknecht could be turned Swiss by a simple headswap 

[Atheling]

Why bother, both Perry, Artizan, Foundry and Steel Fist have good Swiss ranges and I guess any landsknecht could be turned Swiss by a simple headswap 

Though, if you're as pedantic as I, only the Artizan designs Swiss would do (they're the only ones designed specifically with the The Italian Wars in mind). With the proviso that the Steel Fist and Perry miniatures will do for 1495 and Fornovo etc.

[Maxromek]

Yeah, as Atheling said, only the Artizan ones fit the early 1500's without adding bits with green stuff. They are nice figures as well. But to be perfectly fair, a lot of the landksnechts that are available are also not suitable for the very early 1500's, more like 1520's and 1530's (or even later, with the pluderhosen). I think a lot of times we could just use the existing landsknecht figures, maybe add some more feathers and swap katzbalgers for baselards and longswords.

[valleyboy]

Though, if you're as pedantic as I, only the Artizan designs Swiss would do (they're the only ones designed specifically with the The Italian Wars in mind). With the proviso that the Steel Fist and Perry miniatures will do for 1495 and Fornovo etc.

some Artizan Swiss



There are only handgunners in their missile troop range, no crossbows

[painterman]

My own understanding is that, after about 1515 there are really NO discernible differences in dress between German Landsknechts and Swiss.
They may have carried small personal marks, such as a Burgundian or Swiss Cross about them, but if you look at contemporary images (Urs Graff etc), the only difference maybe that the Swiss added a few more ostrich feathers in their caps.
So for the majority of the Italian Wars any Landsknechts will really do, IMHO.
Simon

[HerbertTarkel]

It sounds like this period would spark fisticuffs over minutae on miniatures 

Those Artizan are STUNNING! 

[Legiox217]

The Artizan Swiss look quite nice indeed. I would definitely like to try a pack of their handgunners one day as I can never resist collecting a variety of those and I was unaware that these were the only figures of Swiss for the period that cover right up to before they are indistinguishable from the Landskneckts. I am particularly interested as it relates to how different they would be represented than my Steel Fist Swiss or converted Perry.

So as I understand, these Artizan Swiss may be considered roughly 1495-1515 Swiss - could they be considered the 'final evolution' of the Swiss mercenaries before they lose their reputation/unique identity for a time?  As in, from 1495, up to 1515 when they are defeated, they remained largely the same (but different than the previous decades), and proceeded to promptly recover from the 1515 defeat in a radical way (by copying the other Germans who initially copied them) to better match the Landsckenckts, hence the indistinguishability ?

They sound like the only range of Swiss indeed that would be appropriate to fight the Landsckneckts in the earlier wars, which is good to know, if I am gathering this correctly. Thanks gents

[Maxromek]

So as I understand, these Artizan Swiss may be considered roughly 1495-1515 Swiss - could they be considered the 'final evolution' of the Swiss mercenaries before they lose their reputation/unique identity for a time?  As in, from 1495, up to 1515 when they are defeated, they remained largely the same (but different than the previous decades), and proceeded to promptly recover from the 1515 defeat in a radical way (by copying the other Germans who initially copied them) to better match the Landsckenckts, hence the indistinguishability ?

I wouldn't look that much into it, I think the more likely explanation is simply that they adopted Landsknecht more gaudy style of dress simply because it was in fashion for soldiers. I reckon it's the natural adaption of fashion that has happened everywhere throughout history 😁

I'm with Simon on this one, early on they probably were less gaudy than Landsknechts (but early period Landsknechts are also less gaudy than this in the latter parts of the Wars), but after roughly 1515 the distinction is pretty much down to "button counting" levels 😂 The three points of distinction I've managed to find were the feathers and the crosses (and from what I've seen this means slashes on cloths in a cross shape, typically on a thigh) that Simon mentioned and the different type of side arm.

[Von Stroheim]

The Osprey  = Warrior Series ' Landsknecht Soldier 1486 - 1560' by John Richards and Gerry Embleton is pretty good at describing the subtle differences between the Landsknechts and the Swiss Reislaufer.

[Legiox217]

Every tenth Ostrich step forward …
I’ve got the Osprey book coming, so I’ll count the feathers
Cheers