Simpler alternatives to Warhammer Fantasy

[Basementboy]

Hello all! have been collecting a couple of Warhammer Fantasy armies for a while now and playing 6th edition- I like the game, but it quickly becomes a slog to play through when I try it with friends- there are too many special rules for me, and I can't get through a game without forgetting something important. Moreover, I don't like how inconclusive combats are- once heroes have joined a unit it's very hard for them to fail a moral test, so any combat becomes a drag lasting for four or five turns at least.
I enjoy a lot of aspects of WFB, but I'd appreciate advice for a more "beer and pretzels" fantasy rank and flank.

Thanks very much in advance!

[Pictors Studio]

Try Warmaster.  It was designed for 10mm but works fine at any scale.  You may find it useful to reorganize your forces into units of like 12 or 24.  You can change the cm to inches if you want but you don't need to. 

Army lists are probably available for the armies you have. 

It is quite simply the best miniature game Games Workshop have every made. 

[Mikai]

Oathmark would be another suggestion you might want to look up.

[YPU]

I'll second the statement about warmaster, with the caveat that its the best fantasy rules GW made, getting beaten out for the overall spot by epic Armageddon.

Mantics Kings of war was pretty much written as a faster playing warhammer alternative. There used to be very clear GW proxy army lists available, I'm not sure if that's still the case but they are definitely fast playing though don't reduce the buckets of dice needed at all.

[TheDaR]

Not my personal cup of tea, but I'll echo the game system that I see most often suggested as a "play with my WHFB minis but simpler and better" is Kings of War.

Other possibilities include Oathmark as Mikai suggested, Hobgoblin and Midgard.  All of these are roughly in the same category as WHFB, formation based rank and flank type games, but with streamlined rules.

If you want to look a bit further afield and want a slightly more skirmishy approach, the Rampant series, particularly Dragon Rampant which has an upcoming 2nd edition, and SAGA should handle most WHFB-sized armies fairly well, and both of those are more amenable to non-10mm game play (so long as everyone is consistent).

If you are willing to go more abstract and play into the mass battles aspect, the suggestion of Warmaster is a decent one (likely as Warmaster Revolution, the fan-driven living version of the game), since you'll obviously find most if not all of your various armies and their troops represented, though playing in non-10mm might require some jiggery-pokery on your part.   There's also some more flexible games in similar scale.  I'm particularly fond of Irregular Wars: Fantastic Battles, though De Bellis Fantasiea has a pretty strong pedigree as well.

[Pattus Magnus]

Another set of possibilities is the One Page Rules:Regiments set that is aimed at replicating the Warhammer Fantasy experience, but without the Warhammer frustrations. I played a small test game (6 units and a couple heroes per side) of OPR: Regiments back in the spring and I enjoyed it.

[Rick]

Look I hate to be the one to point the bleedin' obvious out but, if 6th edition is too much, then go back to 5th, or 4th, or even 3rd if you think they'll give a better game. You obviously like Warhammer, just need a set that isn't as much hard work as 6th.
Elsewhere we've been having a conversation about which version of Warhammer was the most fun whilst still being a great game - the consensus seemed to be that, although 4th and 5th had their good points, they also saw the rise of the special character combo which has become less fun. For that reason, some of us seem to think that 3rd was superb - no overpowering special characters, 1 book of army lists for all races (get the pdf) and a really good, fun game.

[pixelgeek]

One Page Rules Regiments is fun but I have not been playing it as much as the magic system is deeply flawed.

Oathmark is a pretty fun game. Not as many heroes and they are actually pretty easy to kill if you get the right dice roll. Simpler rules and a simpler army building system.

[BeneathALeadMountain]

Carrying on from Rick’s salient post I’d echo the praise for 3rd but warn it’s a bit of a toolkit (not a bad thing at all) and so approached by sensible gamers it’s very fun and can easily be tailored to your needs. It is however potentially open to exploitation e.g be aware some of the magic is super powerful and can quickly become a bit dull/OP. But amongst friends that want to have fun small/medium games it’s perfect.

Andrew
BeneathALeadMountain

[Basementboy]

Thanks very much folks, this is all very useful! I've grabbed the free sample pdfs for Hobgoblin and KoW, and found free scans online of WFB 3rd ed and Oathmark. just downloaded the recommended One Page Rules game as well- will be sure to try out all of them

[Hobgoblin]

Kings of War and Hobgoblin are definitely good calls - and there are a couple of cut-down versions of KoW (Ambush and a new one) that are good intro versions.

I'd argue that Warhammer second edition is the one to go for: simpler and 'cleaner' than third edition - and much more playable. It also has all the best scenarios (Dolgan Raiders, the Lichemaster ones, The Magnificent Sven, etc.).

[Rick]

Kings of War and Hobgoblin are definitely good calls - and there are a couple of cut-down versions of KoW (Ambush and a new one) that are good intro versions.

I'd argue that Warhammer second edition is the one to go for: simpler and 'cleaner' than third edition - and much more playable. It also has all the best scenarios (Dolgan Raiders, the Lichemaster ones, The Magnificent Sven, etc.).

Yeah - honestly, we've been round all the houses on this conversation! 2nd is great, it has the greatest puns, the biggest jokes and the silliest stuff out of all the editions - but the 'rank and flank' structure of later Warhammer really doesn't come of age until 3rd edition - 3rd is the mature but still fun wargame that will form the basis of the later editions but doesn't get bogged down in special rules, special counter rules, counter-counter rules and exceptions to the rules and special rules! 

[Rick]

On another thread, somebody also mentioned 'Warhammer Renaissance' as having the best parts of 3rd to 5th Warhammer - that might be worth a look as well.

[Elbows]

I'm working on a game which is just that...but no reasonable time-frame (maybe a year or so).  This game uses multi-basing, but you can simply blue-tac bases to larger bases or use 3D printed basing bits and it would work just fine.

Check out either of the Famine, Sword, & Fire threads.

We've been playin' the hell out of 'Warhammer' fantasy without using the rules, or...many of the models. 

FSF is significantly faster/smoother, less bogging, less fiddly...just fun, without being too simple (still loads of analysis paralysis and strategy involved).  It does not operate using single miniatures each rolling their own hit/wound/armour saves, etc.  Melee combat is predominantly simultaneous so no "initiative" based feel-bads.  Monsters and characters are strong but blocks of infantry and cavalry are the mainstay.

Players use the same army matrix and simply theme their own forces using traits, etc. so balance is much easier.  Magic is present but not overpowering.  Scenarios are actual scenarios not "deploy here instead of deploying there!", and affect your army composition greatly.  Most scenarios are assymetric and provide victory conditions beyond simply slaying your opponent.

Legendary heroes make guest appearances by way of triumph cards, so you can have the occasional mega-hero show up for a single game, etc.  You can manipulate the game by hiring agents, couriers, and expanding your deployment options using skirmishers.  Games can be affected by seasonal weather including severe weather events.

Combat results are concealed/revealed tokens which have 10 or more results, keeping combat varied and interesting (with a blind morale mechanic which keeps your opponent guessing on the status of your units).  Siege and campaign rules are underway, though they need plenty of testing.  A simplified campaign mechanism is in use right now which involves a simple poker deck (with players drawing from a defeat or triumph deck depending on the game's outcome).

Overall it's been damn good fun.  We chuckled because at one point we were playing a massive 2v2 game using almost exclusively 3D printed miniatures...playing Warhammer with none of the Warhammer.  We enjoy the lore/world, just not the games so much.

[Kitsune]

Midgard is well worth a try as it can cover WFB v well