Orders from Chinese pirates

[Khurasan Miniatures]

I received an order from a Chinese PayPal account. Goods are to be shipped to the USA but the address is a remailer. The goods will be shipped on to China.

Googling the buyer a bit tells me the person pirates designs and sells them in Temu.

So I decided to refund the “customer.”  Now I need to fight PayPal to return the fee.

The problem — what if he just orders again? He ordered $200 worth of goods. The fee is $10. Every time he reorders, I’ll have to refund and then fight PayPal to get the fee back.

Tried blocking him, but the thieves at PayPal make that impossible for 90% of your buyers.

Would you just give up and let him steal your designs?

[Mikai]

Out of the naive perspective of a normal customer, can't you block him from ordering at your shop? Or why is he able to already pay the bill? In Germany my order first needs to get confirmed before I get the payment details, that's where the blocking would come in. Not sure how your shop is set up though.

[Khurasan Miniatures]

No, PayPal has a block feature but it’s terrible, and 90% of buyers can’t be blocked. When people buy using PayPal, they send the money and you get it. If you want to cancel the order, you need to refund them.

[Aethelflaeda was framed]

Refund him by check to the address he provided, keep a 15% restocking fee if you wish. 

[robh]

Use the same "get out" as eBay, make it clear in your T&Cs that you will only ship to the buyers address as registered on PayPal (or any other money handler) and then instigate a "No shipping to China, Russia etc" policy.

[Khurasan Miniatures]

Sadly, PayPal doesn’t care about any of these replies. For instance, I could refund by check, he could dispute the payment, and get PayPal to refund him, even if I sent proof of a check.

Likewise, PayPal doesn’t care about my T&C.

Any manufacturers have any input?

[nicknorthstar]

I don't get charged by Paypal for refunds. (the fee gets given back to me). Maybe call them to change your account? Do you have a business or personal account with Paypal?

In your situation, I'd take the thief's money and sit on it. If they then put in a Paypal dispute I'd refund it after 10 days or so. I wouldn't get charged by Paypal for that. They do charge me if I leave a dispute for them to refund the customer, it's an admin fee.

Nick
North Star

[BillK]

These pirates are just trouble all the way around. Enuf' commentary... I agree with Nick's option...

"In your situation, I'd take the thief's money and sit on it. If they then put in a Paypal dispute I'd refund it after 10 days or so. I wouldn't get charged by Paypal for that. They do charge me if I leave a dispute for them to refund the customer, it's an admin fee."

[Ben Waterhouse]

One of the many, many reasons I dumped PayPal.

[mikedemana]

I would definitely not ship him the order. Just pretend your Black Tree Designs... 

Seriously, that's the problem with companies relying on A.I. to every dang thing. No customer service person to explain the situation to -- just AI.

Mike Demana

[Khurasan Miniatures]

I don't get charged by Paypal for refunds. (the fee gets given back to me). Maybe call them to change your account? Do you have a business or personal account with Paypal?

In your situation, I'd take the thief's money and sit on it. If they then put in a Paypal dispute I'd refund it after 10 days or so. I wouldn't get charged by Paypal for that. They do charge me if I leave a dispute for them to refund the customer, it's an admin fee.

Nick
North Star

Thanks Nik, remember I'm in the USA and the rules work differently here.  Big companies are able to basically r*pe you, and get away with it.

Paypal keeps the fee in the USA if you refund.  If you call them and beg them to refund you, they might, but it takes forever to get a live person on the menu, and they don't have to.

As to just keeping the money, it might also be different in the UK than it is here.  Here, if you don't ship, and the customer wins the dispute, you lose the fee, AND paypal charges you a $15 "dispute fee." Why? Because they can.

So these responses would end up being quite costly to me.

[v_lazy_dragon]

As an alternative approach - if you cast your own - is sending him miscasts an option? Prevents the pirating (or, atleast, the easy pirating)

[FifteensAway]

I like lazy dragons approach, but you'll need to be insidious in the implementation - ship figures that almost look right but have some clear and unambiguous tell that you can use to prove you've been pirated.  This means some modification to the actually castings, with photographic records, before shipping.  Yes, I realize a PIAT for the extra effort but I think it will bear 'fruit' in the long run.

And, please, if you can, make the culprit public - name and shame.  With evidence to support.  Just facts.  Can't argue with facts. 

[Rick]

I like lazy dragons approach, but you'll need to be insidious in the implementation - ship figures that almost look right but have some clear and unambiguous tell that you can use to prove you've been pirated.  This means some modification to the actually castings, with photographic records, before shipping.  Yes, I realize a PIAT for the extra effort but I think it will bear 'fruit' in the long run.

And, please, if you can, make the culprit public - name and shame.  With evidence to support.  Just facts.  Can't argue with facts.

From what I've seen, Temu doesn't give a damn about pirating or IP infringements - they'll just ignore it, especially if the seller is Chinese and the complainant isn't. You need to find a way of not sending him the figures, even if you have to block any and all orders from China manually.

[HerbertTarkel]

Temu, being a Chinese firm, does not in fact care about pirating. Not one bit.