Militia Standard Bearers

[Doc Twilight]

As Eddie Izzard says, if you don't have a flag, you don't count;)

-Doc

[Cory]

I find, for most post RCW stuff I prefer banners draped over vehicles to some poor sap having to carry one on a pole.  Still I can already see some converting options for these fellows.

[fastolfrus]

The last figure in the pack is firing a Broom handle Mauser and is sporting a rather niffty sash.

Paul

I hope he's wearing more than just a sash.

[Rob_bresnen]

throughout this period the socialists 'battle hymn' was 'The Red Flag'. I can imagine a few of them waving red flags in the face of the enermy.

[Red Orc]

Absolutely. I figure most socialist or communist militia units are going to have a flag with a piccy of Kier Hardie or Lenin or occassionally both on it, and lots of gold threadwork in scrolling ribbony things about the dignity of labour and hope for the co-operative commonwealth not to mention the name of the Trade Union, workplace or district that the militia came from.

And the fascists need flags so people can recognise what these brave clean-limbed and not at all degenerate English Men represent - the shiney future of real Britishness under a glorious leader which is just what this country needs and no-one mention Mussollini.

And the Anglicans... would humm and err about it before they joined in too, but wouldn't know what to put on theirs, so would get the ladies from the Church Sewing Circle to make them. 'Lower Crutchley Anglican League - Cake or Death!' I think might be a suitable slogan.

[carlos marighela]

throughout this period the socialists 'battle hymn' was 'The Red Flag'. I can imagine a few of them waving red flags in the face of the enermy.

Unless of course they were singing the internationale. I'm not sure the Red Flag got a lot of 'airplay' outside of English speaking countries. Alas, no bugger sings it these days, except for a handful of faux Trots. personally I prefer this one:



Here's my battle hymn:

[Arlequín]

Let's not forget the Anarchists....



I always prefer the jolly Hymno de Riego...



and let's not forget the undisputed pop hit of the SCW 'Ay Carmela'

   

The Internationale would be the song of choice for the Communists and Red Flag for other groups, in the VBCW like as not.

Anything by Paul Robeson is likely to be popular too.

[Captain Blood]

I think what I'm really saying is that - to my mind - there's too much of a SCW influence in the uniforms and appearance of some of the figures which are being made / fielded for the counter-factual VBCW.
Not that it's any of my business, since I'm not playing it! 

[Hammers]

Since it is counterfactual, why not this:



For something slightly ( just a tad so)  more plausible Women's Institute fighters would of course march to the rousing tones of 'Jerusalem'.

[former user]

I can hardly imagine a war fought about political ideology without flags being waved around (not military flags, no).

But then, I'm kind of uninspired serious german 

[paul c]

"there's too much of a SCW influence in the uniforms and appearance of some of the figures which are being made / fielded for the counter-factual VBCW."

I think the justification is that the SCW is contemporary with VBCW, so the uniforms and fashions of the respective sides in the SCW (eg the influence of nazi uniforms on the Action uniform of the BUF, the visual appearnace of the Internatonal Brigades) are copied in the styles of the different protaganoists in the VBCW.

Having said that, there is also a case that the amount of khaki and navy blue uniforms available in Britain in the late 30s would lead to a similar appearnce between both sides; if a unit is kitted out in WW1 surplus, field marks, badges, patches or armbands would be needed to differntiate between sides.

AS to songs, the Red Flag is virtually unknown outside Britain and The Internationale would have been the CPGBs anthem. There is a recent Topic records compilation that has a CP version from 1939, song in upper class 1930s accents. Priceless.

[carlos marighela]

hehe. Carmem Miranda. Sadly her memorial is a tiny museum in Flamengo that looks alarmingly like a public toilet.  As public conveniences are almost unheard of in Brazil, it is indeed alarming. Attention those members of the George Michael Fan Club with an eye to the future.

Fun bit of trivia: if you look at the other videos running along the bottom you can see the opening scenes of 'Saludos Amigos', the film that Disney made as part of the US effort to lure Brazil into WW2. It's probably the best of all the Disney films. Zé Carioca is a much more stylish and smarter character than Mickey or Donald and they used Ary Barroso's music for the film. If you have ever wondered why you are listening to Aquarela do Brasil whilst stuck in a lift somewhere on the planet then that film is probably the reason.

As for Women's Institutes, there existed in Australia, in the 1950s, an actual organisation called Ladies in League Against Communism (the LILAC League). Truth is so much stranger than fiction.

[Arlequín]

I think what I'm really saying is that - to my mind - there's too much of a SCW influence in the uniforms and appearance of some of the figures which are being made / fielded for the counter-factual VBCW.
Not that it's any of my business, since I'm not playing it! 

There is certainly a Spanish influence as far as what's being fielded, which is mainly due to the scarcity of 'British' inter-war types generally. On a 'historical' note this can be hand-waved away as it's not uncommon for there to be a degree of imitation when one faction or country influences another, Zouave styles and 'Bismark' era German styles for example.

The BUF put their own spin on Italian and later German fascist uniforms and I can see militia formations wanting to copy their brothers in Spain. I suspect that flat caps could largely replace the Gorrillo... though military side caps might be worn in imitation and a simpler Gorrillo was manufactured in the SCW (the tent hat - two pieces of material stitched on three sides), so 'Spanish militia styling' could be 'in'.

I don't see much Spanish influence on the purpose built figures for the period though, you certainly couldn't say the Musketeer figures were anything else but British/Irish types.

Flags are something I'm in two minds about. I really can't see regulars and territorials using them (The British Army stopped using them in the 19th Century). Everyone else maybe. When you have large bodies of relatively untrained or indisciplined men, a flag makes a useful indicator of where the unit is supposed to be. When your flag moves, you move etc. They also have the problem of marking their units as fine targets from quite a way off. I imagine their use would die out over time.

[TadPortly]

I think Jim has hit the nail on the head here.  As more VBCW figures come on the market I think you'll see less SCW figs fielded.  As for side hats - the "chip-hat" was a common British military hat in the 30s, so military units might well sport them. On flags I agree - except for parades, the military would not field them.  They have no tactical value and by the 30s would not be in line of sight for most of the battalion's companies when deployed.  Other units might field them, but I agree with Jim that their use would slowly be dropped (I suspect you'd have a hard time getting someone to actually carry such an iobvious target!).  That said, flags do look good on the table and being an alternate reality its up to the individual at the end of the day.

[Red Orc]

I'm rather of the opinion that people in Britain in the 1930s were more used to flags and banners than we are today. People were members of many more organisations than we are, from Trade Unions to professional associations and guilds, the Masons, the Scouts, co-ops and friendly socities, brass bands and a thousand other groups... each of these pretty much would have a local branch or group with a flag or banner and there would be fairly frequent parades or significant events involving the banner, I reckon. I think people would just be more used to the idea of having them, carrying them, following them and crucially, identifying with them.

Thus, I reckon it's very likely that local units, militia bands, and the like (which is of course what this thread is about) would use them. They'd be part of the mental furniture that people carry with them, and it would probably be regarded as an honour to carry the banner into battle - not just in a 'make the guy who's on a suicide mission feel better' kind of way, but in actuality. Death from being shot is not necessarily a bar to zealous pursuit of strongly-held beliefs after all.

But, over time, their use may decline even among 'traditionalists' (or all the traditionalists volunteer to be shot at and eventually no-one who cares about the banner is left alive, one of the two).