Artillery in the SYW (and specifically the F&IW)

[Silent Invader]

My skirmish project gets ever more out of hand as I contemplate the incorporation of some artillery units. 

I found an interesting article that explores something of SYW artillery useage at  http://webspace.webring.com/people/hi/ilg21/sywmarlb.htm.  What is written seems to accord with the artillery component that accompanied Braddocks column (tho this was, in essence a siege train).  Reading Ospreys Monongahela, his artillery included six of 6-pdr cannon, four of 12-pdrs, four of 8" howitzers and 15 Coehorn mortars.  These pieces were crewed by a body of Royal Artillery and there is no mention of smaller pieces, such as 4-pdr 'battalion guns', being crewed by men drawn from the line infantry.

On my 'to do' list is a section of perimeter defences, including parapets, trenches and palisades, such as might have defended Fort William Henry or similar, for which artillery has its place.  So I'm thinking of maybe two short 6-pdrs (one for each side) and a mortar for the besiegers.  But what attire for the crew?  For the British there's a most useful painting from the Battle of Minden http://www.britishbattles.com/seven-years/minden.htm.  Any suggestions for the French?

Front Rank also do some SYW British Artillery (http://www.frontrank.com/lev4_3_2_1_SYW_British_&_Hanoverian.asp) but not any for the French.

I must admit to being tempted by conversion possibilites arising from the new British Napoleonic  Artillery (http://www.victrixlimited.com/new_releases.php) as reviewed at  http://figurspel.blogspot.com/  so many wheels, so many barrels, so many minis for dollies......  The cannon barrels and limbers seem pretty much identical to the F&IW models that have been reconstructed at Fort Ligonier.

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.  Cheers. 

[Aaron]

I found this picture of SYW-era French artillerist figures:



My French crew are Old Glory, but they are still in the bag as my opponent and I seem to have an unspoken agreement not to begin an arms race.

I believe this uniform holds true for North America. I seem to recall reading somewhere (maybe Chartrand;s Osprey on Louisbourg?)that infantry and/or naval personnell helped out when needed, but that could just have been because Louisbourg was a port. Interestingly enough Braddock's expedition included a contingent of sailors sent to help get the guns over the mountains due to their experience with block and tackle. I've always wanted to paint some up to work into a scenario.

A lot of the guns in the fortifications of both sides seem to have been on naval carriages, making them much easier to scratch build. 

[carlos marighela]

The waistcoat sans coat seems to have been a popular option when serving the guns, bloody hot work. Pity nobody bothers to do this in 28mm. Have a look at Eureka for some more gun options, including a Swedish 4 pdr.

[Adam]

The waistcoat sans coat seems to have been a popular option when serving the guns, bloody hot work. Pity nobody bothers to do this in 28mm.

Minden miniatures do artillery and labourers with empty hands for tools. The labourers wear waistcoats but have the same gaiters and tricorns as the artillery so these could well do the job:

labourers
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Gzfjll_2bLc/SdC7C3k54EI/AAAAAAAAAxo/EJKziiwdX4E/s1600-h/Inked+Civilian+Labourers+1.jpg

Artillery
http://mindenminis.blogspot.com/2008/10/feast-of-famine.html

They are more slender than other ranges though, so they might not look right against, say, crusader.

[Adam]

Theres also this howitzer here with a shirtsleeve crew from the Perries. If you're getting the limber with 6 pounder anyway you'd have the option of both types of gun depending on scenario. The only problem with them is that they have short gaiters rather than the long ones typical of the SYW. Personally I'd go with the Mindens but these do have a scruffier look to them that might fit more with the F&IW in feel if not accurate for Regulars. They might work well for American militia, though.

[Lowtardog]

Thanks chaps.  Really useful info.

The Eureka British 6-pdr is nice but quite expensive at £7.40 each.  Foundry do the Prussian 6-pdr at £5 each or a pack of three for £14 (discounted to I think £11 from Caliver with free postage if the order is more than £16.50).  Wayland Games do a discount on the Victrix artillery, which, with all its extra bits for limbers etc, still seems too good to be true.

Those Minden figures are lovely. They're certainly slimmer though that concerns me less than the height.  They are stated as being 31mm which I think equates to my Crusader infantry but is taller than Conquest (I think 29/30) and would dwarf the Eureka AWI ragged infantry which I reckon are only 28/29 overall.

Has anybody combined  Minden with Conquest and Perry?

Having looked at the Minden I reckon a pack each of the British and French artillery, plus the four labourers and the two walking drovers would give me a nice mix of long coats and waistcoats.

Thanks again.



 

tHE mINDEN ARE MORE SLIGHT THAN cRUSADER BUT FOR ARTILLERY CREWS ARE iDEAL i HAVE ENOUGH FOR A SMAL BATTERY

[Aaron]

Please let us know if you have any luck SI. I have been sorely tempted to try my hand at some Minden stuff.

[Aaron]

I do not own any of them. They have a somewhat "old school" look to my eye. I wasn't impressed when I saw them in person and this picture does nothing to sway me I'm afraid.



(from a review here: )

[carlos marighela]

I'd think twice about the Minden figures if I were you. I had the opportunity to see some 'in the flesh', as it were, for the first time today. My observations:

1) Very nice figures if you are trying to recreate a Chas. Stadden range from the 1970s. Detail was there but facial features etc looked remarkably soft. Looked like a real bugger to paint. If I wanted to mess about painting figures like that I understand that the Jacklex 20mm figures are still available as are Tradition and without the potential  problems associated with dealing with the owner of the range.

2) They are truly wee chaps. Yes they are about the same height, give or take a mil or two, as Eureka but the proportions are really different. Very slender figures. Indeed this caused me to have a big rethink about the desirability of suposedly true to life, anatomically correct, scaled figures. In the past I would have said without reservation that this was the way to go but these just look a bit odd. I think Perry, Eureka and the plastic chaps are as far as I want to go in that direction.

3) They match nothing that's currently in production. Eureka and Perry would be the closest but they look decidedly different, bulkier yet strangely to my eye at least better proportioned. Maybe the RSM figures would match more closely, the style is of  similar vintage but if your armies are Front rank, Crusader or just about anyone else, they would look bloody odd and trust me I'm no scale/ size nazi.

Not bad figures, indeed very nice in their own way but I think they rather commit you to an all or nothing approach. Your mileage may vary.

[Aaron]

Thanks indeed Carlos. I had the same initial reservations but painted examples from guys like Ioannis were making me curions. Granted, Ioannis could make something I sculpted look good with his magic brushwork...

[carlos marighela]

And indeed that's a common problem. We all have seen painted examples by some master artist that make X, Y or Z figures look stunning but when confronted by them in the flesh... Ok I'm a crap painter, I don't aspire to be Steve Dean or even some of the stellar painters of this site but I do know my limits and capabilities. I also know when I'm painting figures, it's likely to be a whole unit or indeed several units worth of 20-30 figures not just a few display items I can devote a week to each figure. So for me it's always best to see the damn things in the flesh if only to work out whether I can do them justice and justify the exependiture.

As I said nice figures, elegant in their own way but I don't think I'll be buying any. Actually given the owners reputation, I doubt he would sell me any now as what I have written might be interpreted as mild criticism.

[Darkoath]

Redoubt has a French Artillery crew in their FIW range...

Darkoath

[Arteis]

Actually, I found the Minden figures some of the easiest I've ever painted (only beaten by Front Rank).

Today, for instance, I'm working on some Minden French drummers.  The lace on drummers is usually a pig to paint.  But on the Minden fgures, it is very intricately sculpted on.  All that I had to do was paint all laced areas red (the first thing I did after the usual black undercoat), then dry-brush with white, and finally edge in with the blue coat colour.  I am very pleased with the result - much tidier and more realistic than any other drummers' lace I've even achieved.

Faces, too, are very easy to do.  Just paint with a straight light flesh, let dry and then wash with GW sepia wash, then use the same light flesh paint to highlight nose, chin and cheeks, and finally dab some devlan mud wash into the eye sockets and mouth - hey presto ... done!  I have finally, after many years, ditched painting eyes with these figures, and it really works.

I would agree that these guys are different from most of the makes I'm used to, and are perhaps indeed an "all or nothing" range.  I don't have any RSM figures, though, so can't speak for them.  But as I am just starting my 'Barry Lyndon'-based army, this is not a problem for me.

Anyway, if you would like to see the Mindens I have painted so far, take a look here at my 'Dressing the Lines' blog:
http://arteis.wordpress.com/category/figures/minden-miniatures/

http://arteis.wordpress.com/category/figures/minden-miniatures/

Here's a teaser shot from the blog:

 
 

[carlos marighela]

Lovely paint job Roly. You've done those a treat. Still you are ina different league to me, I've seen your other work. Horses for courses re the Minden stuff.

[Lowtardog]

They do look lovely.  Thanks for sharing.

As to progress I had a reply from the Minden chap that his figures probably wouldn't work with an existing collection unless it was of RSM95s, which is something I have also read elsewhere.  Anyways I've gone back and flagged that my collection is mostly Conquest and Eureka, which are also of a slimmer build (though I suspect are significantly shorter).  I'll update on progress if there is any.   

I have the artillery fro Franl and can say they are more slight, it really depends on how badly you want to finish your project and what compromises you are willing to make.

I love the conquest miniatures but waiting for them to complete their range could put you in an early grave with around 2 years for regulars to be released and only picture of greens so far

On Minden they are a range in their own right, if you look at what has been done in 2 years their range is developing into the most comprehnsive syw one around and all in the same style. They are designed with big battalions in mind rather than skirmish which is what I think you are after SI.


It may be worth looking at other nations artillery crews such as russians, prussians and austrians anddoing a bit of pick and mix