WHFB 8

[Argonor]

Going with 40k esq "true line of sight" is a nonsense aswell (just as it was when brought into 40k). Terrain made for miniature games HAS to be built to allow the players to actually place their models inside it, hence gaps are needed. Now if you want to make a terrain piece that represents a dense patch of trees for example you need to build a solid wall of sight blocking trees, with a hole in the center to place models.

I agree on this to a degree, For 'real' skirmish games without coherency rules, true line of sight can be fun, awarding, and challenging, as you let your CC models jump from cover to cover to get into charge range of that sniping enemy model, while in games with more units and unit coherency, terrain has to me more schematic to be of any use tactically.

[P_Clapham]

I should have picked that up when I had the chance.

Battle of 5 Armies IS Warmaster in ME. More or less.

[Argonor]

I should have picked that up when I had the chance.

Same here - it is still available from Specialist Games, though?

[dijit]

i'm pretty sure it Battle of five armies is still available, otherwise it must come up on ebay quite often.
Duncan

[rob_the_robgoblin]

It's available, but all the cool metal models were scrapped.

I really wanted to get into it.

[Dewbakuk]

Archers in a single line mean they block LOS for units behind them, block charges by units behind them also. They really do not want to go back to the days of the wood elf archery armies me thinks.

Probably not, but with the Wood Elves they have so many skirmish/cavalry archer options with super bows that 'block' archery units wouldn't be much of an issue anyway. In fact it might even mean that people would start to use more of their standard archers and less of the specialists, letting them put in other units.

the dice will always go against you when you need it more often than they should.
 

Going with 40k esq "true line of sight" is a nonsense aswell (just as it was when brought into 40k). Terrain made for miniature games HAS to be built to allow the players to actually place their models inside it, hence gaps are needed. Now if you want to make a terrain piece that represents a dense patch of trees for example you need to build a solid wall of sight blocking trees, with a hole in the center to place models.

Oh yeah, rolling that snake eyes is going to happen, probably on your most important charge roll too But that'll be the exeption rather than the rule.

I agree with the line of sight through terrain thing though. Very silly for a game like Warhammer, in no way should a cannon be able to 'snipe' through a wooded area and hit anything but trees! However a while back I deliberately made some 'loose' terrain that can be spread around as long grass. It doesn't need to effect movement etc at all, but it's all tall/dense enough to block line of sight. We've used it spread around in clumps as areas of grass and we've also used it around the edges of woods/swamps to that line of sight through that terrain is blocked.

[joroas]

It's available, but all the cool metal models were scrapped.

I bought it all when it came out, the rules are basically Warmaster 1.5.  I did look at Copplestone to extend the range, but they are nearer 12 mm......

[Ramshackle_Curtis]

 However a while back I deliberately made some 'loose' terrain that can be spread around as long grass. It doesn't need to effect movement etc at all, but it's all tall/dense enough to block line of sight. We've used it spread around in clumps as areas of grass and we've also used it around the edges of woods/swamps to that line of sight through that terrain is blocked.

Its all still up at my unit though! Ive been using it in the images of the orcs, I may have to stea it from you (joke).

I hear archers can fire in 2 ranks now though. This will be good for deployment of my army. 115 orc archers, 8 balista, 2 giants and 4 wizards.

[Dewbakuk]

Yep, they do indeed fire in two ranks.

It had slipped my mind that you had most of that terrain. Not an issue as currently I'm mostly playing Warmachine at Chimera in Beeston and therefore using their boards. Although ironically, quite a bit of their scenery is my old stuff as the person I donated it too has donated it to the shop 

[Donpimpom]

True, this is their 8th attempt.

I think you're missing the point. They do not want a definitive version, they want to keep selling new rulebooks.

wrong, they don't get too much benefit from rulebook sales, I can assure you that point. They want to keep selling miniatures, their real business, a definitive edition in long term sales means definitive armies, and so, lower long term miniature sales. That's why the rulebook and army books will never have a definitive version.

[white knight]

wrong, they don't get too much benefit from rulebook sales, I can assure you that point. They want to keep selling miniatures, their real business, a definitive edition in long term sales means definitive armies, and so, lower long term miniature sales. That's why the rulebook and army books will never have a definitive version.

Yes, that was the next step in the reasoning that I didn't elaborate further on. I agree.

[Viper]

After the former Wood Elf player in me woke up for a bit I went looking specifically for confirmed rumors on the two most important things to that army...skirmishers and terrain.

Sadly it seems Woodsies will take the biggest instant kick in the groin from the immediate changes.

Skirmishers are a "fixed" formation all models 0.5" away from each other, though they can reform for free on the move so they are flexible. The real issues come from changes to other rules that effect how skirmishers were used.

Marchblocking can now be ignored on a successful Ld test. A unit which fails a charge, or wins a round of combat can reform if it passes a Ld test in the remaining moves phase, which makes baiting pretty useless against a lot of armies.

The Terrain changes are even worse than I first thought, while true line of sight is bad apparantly not only does terrain hardly block sight (unless it's a high wall) but it doesn't even reduce movement now. Though certain units make a "dangerous terrain test" ala 40k, roll a 1 and the model dies.
 

[Argonor]

The Terrain changes are even worse than I first thought, while true line of sight is bad apparantly not only does terrain hardly block sight (unless it's a high wall) but it doesn't even reduce movement now. Though certain units make a "dangerous terrain test" ala 40k, roll a 1 and the model dies.
 

I've seen lots of Warhammer tables with only a few pieces of terrain scattered along the edges...   

[dijit]

After the former Wood Elf player in me woke up for a bit I went looking specifically for confirmed rumors on the two most important things to that army...skirmishers and terrain.

Sadly it seems Woodsies will take the biggest instant kick in the groin from the immediate changes.

Skirmishers are a "fixed" formation all models 0.5" away from each other, though they can reform for free on the move so they are flexible. The real issues come from changes to other rules that effect how skirmishers were used.

Marchblocking can now be ignored on a successful Ld test. A unit which fails a charge, or wins a round of combat can reform if it passes a Ld test in the remaining moves phase, which makes baiting pretty useless against a lot of armies.

The Terrain changes are even worse than I first thought, while true line of sight is bad apparantly not only does terrain hardly block sight (unless it's a high wall) but it doesn't even reduce movement now. Though certain units make a "dangerous terrain test" ala 40k, roll a 1 and the model dies.
 

hmmmm, definately not convinced after reading this! SOBH here I come!

[Dewbakuk]

Can't comment on the terrain movement, I didn't read that bit of the book. The thing that leaped out at me from the terrain is the option of having 'fantasy' terrain on the board. Of the two examples that I can think of one is a wizards tower, which must be represented by a proper tower, which allows a wizard within it to have access to all the spells in their list, not just the ones they rolled. The other is a Wyld wood type piece where units moving through it have to roll on a chart to see what happens to them, they range from fey creatures appearing to give them magic items, to being led into the deep woods by sprites and never seen again (remove unit from board). Clearly these are unlikely to appear in tournament play but for casual games they could be cool and for campaigns could be fantastic