Colors for Copplestone WWI Brits in Palestine/Africa?

[ErikB]

I just received some of these excellent minis.

What colors in either Vallejo or GW should be used?

Is the webbing made of leather or of fabric (brown or khaki)?

Are those blue shirts undershirts or regular uniform overshirts?  And are only the ones without collars blue (being undershirts)?

Anyone know a website for this specific category?

Thanks heaps in advance.

[Stecal]

Vallejo Khaki-Grey, but as cloth supply varied could be any khaki shade, esp with heavy sun fading

Wide webbing is greenish-tan or tan woven canvas depending if it is colored with polish per regulation or not (probably not)

narrow webbing would be the older brown leather equipment

Other ranks  shirts without colars & pockets would be the "grey backs"  - some shade of lt grey or blue-grey.  Officers often wore colared shirts with pockets & shoulder tabs - these would usually be Khaki.

PS:  if you look Up you will see several sticky topics on this forum with lots of uniform information

[Plynkes]

As far as I know the 08 pattern equipment was only ever made out of webbing by the Brits (I don't ever recall seeing Tommies using a leather version, though I may well be wrong in that). There is 1914 pattern leather equipment but the Copplestone troops aren't wearing it. The Australians did however manufacture leather equipment to the 08 pattern.

08 pattern webbing:




The collarless shirt worn by other ranks was grey hence the name "greyback" shirt.



I have seen it depicted as a grey-blue, but for some reason most wargamers want to paint it bright blue. These days I tend to use Codex Grey as my starting point for these, and don't bother putting any blue in it like I used to. It always comes out too blue when I do that.


If you have officers wearing shirts with collars they will most likely be Khaki Drill. If any of your figures are wearing jackets they will likely be Khaki Drill too (though not necessarily). Khaki Drill is a kind of sandy colour.

Here's Del Boy Trotter sporting a bit of Khaki Drill for you:


For Khaki Drill I mix GW Graveyard Earth with Coat d'Arms Horse Tone Dun as a starting point. Then I highlight with Horse Tone Dun + Linen. Sorry that isn't much help, but I'm not familiar with Vallejo.


Edit: Scooped by Stecal! 

[Plynkes]

Are those blue shirts undershirts or regular uniform overshirts? 

The Greyback shirt is just that, a shirt. The Khaki Drill tropical uniform had a jacket that went over it. It's just that when it was hot they tended to not wear the jacket.

When they did wear the jacket it looked a bit like this:


(These fellows at Gallipoli are wearing trousers, shorts were the norm in tropical climes.)

[carlos marighela]

"As far as I know the 08 pattern equipment was only ever made out of webbing by the Brits"

Quite correct although it's worth noting that both Australia and New Zealand produced and issued a leather version as an emergency measure for a brief time.

http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-equip/1915.htm

[Plynkes]

The Australians did however manufacture leather equipment to the 08 pattern.

 

[ErikB]

Thanks, folks. 

I'm still confused about one thing - for enlisted men, the gray shirts are for wearing *under* the khaki overshirt/jacket?  So, at night, when it's cold, everyone would be wearing khaki, but when it is daytime and hot, the enlisted guys remove the khaki and wear the gray undershirt?  Like we would do nowadays with a t-shirt/undershirt vs. blouse?

Or the gray shirts are worn *instead* of the khaki as their own uniform shirt/blouse?

(Sorry, guys, this is all new to me.  Out here in California, we don't have the common reference of "Gray Backs", though we know all about BDUs and ACUs...)

[Plynkes]

Seems there is some transatlantic language confusion here.    Over here in Blighty we don't think in terms of overshirts and undershirts. A shirt goes next to your skin, unless it is cold then you might wear what we call a vest underneath it (a sleeveless thing, like what Hispanic Gangbangers in LA call "wife-beaters"). Nowadays vests have to an extent been replaced by T-shirts (or thermals) in this role, but I suppose that is complicating things unduly.

The Greyback isn't a special item of tropical kit, it is merely the standard other ranks shirt. Worn in all theatres at (almost) all times underneath whatever kind of uniform jacket was worn. Here it is in a Western Front context:


Now in hot climates or while doing manual labour in summer in any theatre (or any other kind of warm work, such as serving an artillery piece), the troops might be ordered to operate in "shirt-sleeve order." That simply means they are allowed to take their jackets off so they don't get too hot. This is what the Copplestone Brits have done, as was common in tropical theatres in hot weather. It is hot so they have left their jackets behind or put them in their packs, and are wearing their webbing equipment over their ordinary, everyday shirts in an attempt to try and stay cool. 

[ErikB]

Talk about two people divided by the same language!

So they're wearing their undershirts!   

And the guys wearing the layer with the collar (the blouse, outer shirt, jacket, etc.) would have the gray underneath, yes?

If the khaki outer-layer is called a jacket, what would you call the layer they would wear over that if it were snowing or raining?

[Plynkes]

And the guys wearing the layer with the collar (the blouse, outer shirt, jacket, etc.) would have the gray underneath, yes?

Yes, apart from the officers, who as can be seen in one of the pictures above, have khaki shirts and ties.

If the khaki outer-layer is called a jacket, what would you call the layer they would wear over that if it were snowing or raining?

I think the proper army name may actually be tunic rather than jacket, but for cold or wet weather,

A greatcoat:



Or a sleeveless leather jerkin:



Or some kind of sheep or goatskin affair:



Or a rain cape:

[Plynkes]

Oh, I forgot: In warm climates when the weather happens to be cold you sometimes see pictures of troops wearing their serge Service Dress tunics instead of the Khaki Drill ones. These are the heavier, warmer and darker-coloured jackets worn by the troops on the Western Front, rather than the lighter and cooler ones normally worn in the tropics.

Here are two Tommies doing this at the surrender of Jerusalem in 1917 (must have been cold in Palestine that day):

[ErikB]

Thanks a bunch for clarifying this.  I really appreciate it.

I'm frequently stumped by British terms for clothing or appearances - bodkin, jerkin, etc.  I'm sure it makes sense but our vocabulary is often different.  I wonder why we call them vests over here?

I cannot imagine wearing a tie in the field.  Shaving was annoying enough.

[carlos marighela]

Oops missed that bit Plynkes.