Mantic's rule set coming soon.

[Viper]

Information is starting to come out about Mantics own rules "Kings of War."
http://www.manticblog.com/

Also it's "Mantic weekend" on Beast of War, interviews about the new rules, and other goodies.
http://www.beastsofwar.com/

I know Ronnie from Mantic's first love is "the big battle" but I'll be very interested to see how, or if, the rules scale from small squad skirmishes up to his visions of seas of models clashing.

Certainly after my extreme dislike of some of the changed to Warhammer with 8th edition, this could very well be what gets me back into army sized battles...though I still think small skirmishes are where my heart truly lies.

[Argonor]

I think the rules will make for a very fast paced game.

http://www.youtube.com/user/BeastsOfWar#p/a/u/1/g7ko_tMY6yc

Of course, it's too early to tell - but I think it is going in that direction 

My only problem will be, that I cannot find the time to paint an army - but you can't win 'em all...

[Viper]

Cheap models, yes, that's a good thing isn't it?

Generic models, while the first races have been standard Fantasy races the models have been of an exceptionally high standard in both sculpt and manufacturing quality and of fairly interesting design/character.

Cheap generic swipes at GW, nope that's not happened.

The rules set from the little that has been said at this rediculously early stage has made it clear that it isn't going to be a Warhammer clone. Mantic and Alessio have very good ideas about how they want the game to be and hopefully they will make them work.

For a company that is less than two years old they have set rediculously high standards for themselves and they seem to be surpassing them at every turn.

[Commander Vyper]

-Cheap is only a good thing if it matters to you. It does not to me.

-I disagree on the quality of the figures. They are alright. Exceptional is pushing it way too far. The designs are fairly cliche'd and so are generic in my book.

-"White Dwarf" white plastic model contest? News videos where they make fun of GW price increases? Those didn't happen?

-You are right, it's not a Warhammer clone. Having watched the linked video; It's a Black Powder clone. Like Blitzkrieg Commander is to Warmaster.

-I don't know why people keep saying this. They are an average miniatures company, just with a lot of backing. Nothing they've done is really exceptional. They've had a few decent ideas, but nothing that hasn't been done before. People just like them because they are cheap.

Well if there was only one company churning out one genre and no one else was allowed to touch said genre it would be a pretty dull place now wouldn't it?

I do believe that most things in a gaming sense have been done before, but that shouldn't stop someone trying to improve on what's out there and doing it again now surely?

Average? Erm can't agree with that sorry, cheap yesyou got me there, but well sculpted cheap is the winner here.

Not cheap poorly sculpted rubbish like a number of other companies.

I have to ask, do you have any of their minis?

Personally. I have the skeletons and a few ghouls, and I have to say that the skeletons are lovely, characterful figures, the ghouls are a unique idea (re: iron nails through their limbs) and again are nicely sculpted plastics. The elves I didn't like and were the first release from them so again improvement seen as they mature. The zombies are very nice and have already ordered 50 in advance of release date, much better plastic zombie offerings than a few other companies to be honest.

End of the day we all have a choice and we all vote with our wallets, I'm happy to vote with mine.

The Commander

[WarGameGuru]

I don't get why people are so excited about this. People keep saying Mantic is "the bomb" but all I see from them are cheap generic models and cheap generic swipes at GW.

Like I've said elsewhere, every rules set has the potential to be good. However there's nothing I see to suggest this will be anything more than a generic fantasy game or Warhammer clone. Which we have plenty of already.

Cheap yes, but define Generic? If you mean they're NOT GW models, that doesn't mean they're generic, just different. Quite frankly the skeletons are 10X better than GW's skeletons, the ghouls are also 10x nicer.

If they come up with a ruleset that's easier and more fun than GWs, so be it. It's about time someone attempted to dethrone GW, and made a serious attempt. With the same guy who wrote many of GW's existing rules behind it, Mantic is off to a great start.

[rob_the_robgoblin]

Personally, I prefer the GW Skeletons, the Mantic Zombies and the Heresy Ghouls.

As for Elves, I prefer the Mantic ones to GW, but I still don't think they are amazing.

Dwarves, Sorry Mantic, but I'm really not sold. Those beards!!!! They also seem a little tall to me and the muskets/cannons aren't as stocky as I would like. They're a bit pea-shooter to me.

The rules, I am not particularly interested in. I play WHFB and I am quite happy playing that. I think it's great what they are trying, but unfortunately, you have to have a niche. I don't think being cheaper than the biggest fantasy company on the market is a good enough niche.

I do not think Mantic sculpts are terrible, the designs are not really to my taste, but it is great that companies like this continue to exist. The designs are hit and miss for me.

[Viper]

-"White Dwarf" white plastic model contest? News videos where they make fun of GW price increases? Those didn't happen?

Nurse, get me one sense of humour STAT!
 

And what about Vor, Void, Metropolis, Warmachine, Chronopia, Warzone, Celtos, Confrontation, AT-43, Kryomek, Wargods of Aegypticus, Chainmail, and so on and so forth? None of them get credit for making a shot at the top?

Not on a thread where the topic is MANTIC GAMES no. On threads about those specific games, and wargaming in general though you will find that many many systems get lauded for numerous reasons.
 

As for the models that is always going to be a personal thing.
I'm not taken by Mantics Dwarves but they are a lot nicer than Games Workshops. Mantic have the best plastic Zombies and Ghouls, their basic skeletons have more character than Games Workshops, the Revenents are much nicer than Grave Guard. Mantics Elves are nicer than Games Workshops (especially the High Elf plastics), but as the first product aren't quite up to the same level as Mantic's newer kits.
That of course is just my tastes.

[Mad Doc Morris]

I think that much of the current hype around Mantic comes from the vocal GW fanboys, who hardly know (or even are willing to recognise) anything beyond their GW stuff. The price spiral seems to be going over the top finally, so they are in search of alternatives. Gamezone has tried to get into exactly that market, now it's Mantic's turn. They do way better by producing A) plastic miniatures and B) a ruleset to go along with their ranges. Next up will be paints and other "useful hobby materials", I suppose. Even more they're trying to appeal to the GW fans who always felt let down by 'their' company: Mantic pretend to be their customers' 'buddies', they give 'insights' into their business and they seem to listen to and to care for the fans (mainly by showing that steep prices for cheap plastic sets are no imperative).
Honestly, as much as I dislike GW, I'm either no fan of Mantic's marketing concept of - let's call it: stealing.

As a sidenote, what really amazes me is that some people are going to worship Cavatore like the golden calf of rulewriting - the same man that was assailed for most publications he'd designed for GW. Regarding his 'all new' Kings of War system, all I've heard so far reminds me strongly of rulesets coming from the Mediterranean in general. For example, have a look at the Fantasy version of Impetus, you'd be surprised...

[Argonor]

Honestly, as much as I dislike GW, I'm either no fan of Mantic's marketing concept of - let's call it: stealing.

I don't think they are 'stealing' anything. They have reckognized a market for a specific type of producs, and they go for that. Winning market shares on the expense of other companies is neither illegal nor immoral - it's just the law of supply and demand in a free competition environment.

Regarding his 'all new' Kings of War system, all I've heard so far reminds me strongly of rulesets coming from the Mediterranean in general. For example, have a look at the Fantasy version of Impetus, you'd be surprised...

I'm not a big fan of AC's work. I do like the LotR:SBG rules for small skirmishes, but they aren't really THAT great.... And the way even space marines are just pawns on the table to be removed by droves in 40K these days I simply detest.

A lot of simple game designs seem to be coming from Italy and/or Italians lately (just like a lot of miniatures and great painters emerged from Spain and France some years, ago - no actual comparison intended).

There also seems to be a shift towards 'unit bases' as opposed to units where each model counts. I'm not a fan of that for 28 mm games. If I want that, I go for smaller scales.

KoW seems to become such a rule set. But I have to actually read the printed rules before judging it.

[Erny]

 

Still banging your poor hard done by GW drum Wolfgang...we get it.

Now as to new mantic rules could be interesting if they are all about huge units and quick resolution.

Oh and loving the zombies

[rob_the_robgoblin]

Yeah, I have to say, please take your argument to the PM system. It's not big and it's not smart.

I do look forward to seeing what the rules are like, but I doubt I will be buying them. Not because it's Allessio Cavatore, not because I think it's a cheap GW 'knock off', but simply because I already have fantasy mass battle down. Nuff said.

[Viper]

Oh gods don't give him ideas Rob I don't want to start getting PMs.
 

It is sounding like Mantic are planning to public beta test their rule at some point which would no doubt include a free pdf on their site and such, so the option to have a wee taste for free will probably be there. If the game does have a totally different feel to it from Warhammer or other mass battle games there is nothing stopping you from using the same army across the systems for a wee change of pace every now and then.

I'm not sure I'd say Alessio Cavatore was a bad book writer with GW, the only real mistake he made was in making Vampire Counts too powerful in 6th, but even then it was nothing like as unbalanced as the current Dark Elves or Daemons, and indeed the Vampire book which replaced Alessio's was just as powerful if not more so.

He wrote the 6th edition Empire book and co-wrote the Tomb Kings book, 7th edition fantasy, helped with the Apocalypse expansion, and a did a lot of work on the Lord of the Rings game all of which turned out pretty well indeed.

But hey lets wait and see how the final product, or even the beta test, turns out.
 

[Commander Vyper]

Don't flatter yourself. I've been trying to make my points and all you've done is blow me off and act like it's obvious that Mantic is something great without trying to back your opinion up.

Consider it done then. If you don't want to have a discussion then we won't.

In fairness you come across as very inflexible pal, so the 'discussion' element of this thread is really not the case, your posts are the equivalent of your sticking your finger's in your ears going 'la la la not listening'.

I don't think anyones' gone all 'fanboy' over mantic, but as you're not really interested in them as a range or ruleset, pretty pointless you going on about them really bud.

Sorry just saying it as i see it. They certainly aren't the holy grail of figures, but they are well produced, well priced and thought through with regards to gaming potential.

Oh and if you want to talk about 'clones' then again a little trip back into Citadel Miniatures fantasy hisotry will see blantant rip off's of Tolkein, Michael Moorcock (eight pointed chaos star anyone) etc...

 

The Commander

[Argonor]

It is sounding like Mantic are planning to public beta test their rule at some point which would no doubt include a free pdf on their site and such, so the option to have a wee taste for free will probably be there.

As far as I understood, the rules will be in each and every box of minis, when they are finished (and updated rules will be included along the way), so a lot of printed rulesets should be out there shortly after release. Retailers will probably get bunch to hand out with the boxes they have already in stock.

KoW will be more about making fantasy battle rules readily available for new and existing gamers, than about making a profit from the rules alone (at least for starters).

And I still don't see what's wrong abour Mantic's business model, or their approach to same. It's a free competition market, and noone has the sole rights to make fantasy models (even though GW has tried for years to convince everybody that they own those rights). It's not like Mantic has made a secret of the fact that they target the same market segment as GW - again, a totally legal business move, and I can only wonder why nobody did this full-scale before now (latest tecnological advances in plastic manufacturing may have made the entering treshold just that tiny bit lower).

In the end, gamers will decide with their wallets which approach is sustainable in the long run.

[Doomhippie]

It's just one other company - no world war has been declared. Looking at their models I find them rather... plain. Nothing to get me exciting with a few exceptions: the ghouls are among the best I've seen and way better than GW's. I also like the zombies.

However, the elves are just groteskly skinny and remind me a lot of wobbly plastic toy soldiers of the lowest quality.

What interests me - did Mr. Cavatore leave GW? He has been one of their major workhorses these last years so I am a bit surprised. Or is this whole company a GW daughter trying to get to those players who are leaving GW because of the high prices? Curious but to lazy to read all the articles or watch the youtube videos.