A few questions about BP and Special Agents

[Anatoli]

It is implied that not only the Special Agent drops off your gang but he takes those extra Build Points with him as he leaves?

So say you have 15BP to begin with , and get 6 additional points from a Special Agent joining you - then you invest these points in gear and more agents/civilians. The Special Agents leaves, how to you scale back from there?

Also, how to you escalate the Build Points in a natural way?



...............
Some ideas I came up with today during the demo campaign.

Build points, for every scenario you complete you gain +1 BP. There needs to be a roof , maybe 30BP or something could be the limit.

Build Points added by special agents increase up to your limit (if that is 30 or more BP is up to you) But if you already maxed out you can't get additional BP from Special Agents. The Build Points are permanent additions; the special agent can only join you once per campaign though.


Any answers or other thoughts?

[Argonor]

You have to remember, that as soon as anyone dies, you may re-equip your team.

Also remember to discern between Base Points and Total Build Points.

When re-equipping, your Base Points may be up to 15, and TBP can be anything.

I do like the idea to be able to increase the Base Points allowance over time - maybe when winning a scenario.

On the other hand, as skills are added to your Base Points (1 pt per skill), as the character and agents grow in experience, you get fewer 'free' points left for re-equipping, letting your team shrink to a few grim, psyked-out, traumatized anti-heroes, before it finally succumbs to some unspeakable horror - which is very much in line with other Mythos.stuff.

So there are pros and cons.

[Anatoli]

Yes but.. maybe I'm missing something here, how do you ever get to use the pricey Lurkers if you are always stuck at 15BP? Or even add additional Skills you might get at the end of a scenario if you are already using 15BP?

This doesn't seem to be explained beyond "add BP as you see fit" ?

[jnr]

You use a map piece to employ a special agents for x amount of time, he comes with + points, these points are not for you to spend but to increase your overall BP points for that game only lets say 15 to 21, when he leave your BP will drop back to 15.

[Anatoli]

You use a map piece to employ a special agents for x amount of time, he comes with + points, these points are not for you to spend but to increase your overall BP points for that game only lets say 15 to 21, when he leave your BP will drop back to 15.

OK so it was as I thought hmm. I like the idea of a small core of characters revolving around 15BP getting deeper into madness. But as I mentioned, it wouldn't make it possible to field some of the high end Lurkers from the rulebook?

[jnr]

After you lose a threshold  member, your then your free to reequip this will rise your BP plus the hire of a special agent  will help push them up also, but then why hurry to a early grave, use only the equipment you need and slowly let you threshold skill points build up. Then you will be ready to take on the higher point lurkers.

[Argonor]

OK so it was as I thought hmm. I like the idea of a small core of characters revolving around 15BP getting deeper into madness. But as I mentioned, it wouldn't make it possible to field some of the high end Lurkers from the rulebook?

That's where the difference between Base Points and Total Build Points is important - the Base Points are the points you use to 'purchase' the Treshold Team members as depicted in the 'force list'.

When first you build a new list, your TBP may not exceed 15 - including extra weapons and gear, but as soon as you re-equip, your team may comprise up to 15 Base Points - and as many additional Build Points you may wish to spend on extra weapons and gear - taking your TBP to any level you can fit in (this makes absolutely no sense the first time one reads it, but it actually works - even with the small mistakes I've made here and there because of nor reading the rules thoroughly enough).

We had no problem making a 31 pts list after 1st re-equip. Without any special agents, that is. Special Agents 'purchased' for map pieces and sometimes artifacts then would add points on top of that.

The 31 pts list was TRASHED by the lurkers, playing a quest scenario, btw. Luckily only one agent (newly added and painted  ) was killed...

[bc99]

Yes but.. maybe I'm missing something here, how do you ever get to use the pricey Lurkers if you are always stuck at 15BP? Or even add additional Skills you might get at the end of a scenario if you are already using 15BP?

This doesn't seem to be explained beyond "add BP as you see fit" ?

Yes, having BPs for build points and base points is a bit confusing and should probably be clarified in any newer versions. BPs and BPs?

That being said, you can raise your build points to whatever, for instance, you can get more weapons, skills, specialists, etc, up to and above 15 base points. Continuing, lets say your agents have slowly acquired new skills, etc to put them at something like 20 base points. As you start to gain these skills, and then lose agents, you'll be left with probably one powerful agent who has slowly seen his friends die off, and can only afford to hire some civilians or special agents from time to time.

At least that's how I understood the base/build point conundrum.

[Argonor]

I actually have an additional question (OK, make that 2):

The Treshold rules state that Characters may purchase 2 pieces of additional gear, and Agents 1 piece.

Does this restriction only apply to starting teams (and can I buy additional gear beyond that when re-equipping), or is it a standing restriction? And so Civilians may never have extra gear, only common weapons and armour?

The rules also say that extra gear can be purchased, and existing gear swapped, but never just discarded of destroyed, which seems to indicate that you may never spend less points on gear when re-equipping than you already have?

[Whiskyrat]

The Treshold rules state that Characters may purchase 2 pieces of additional gear, and Agents 1 piece.

Does this restriction only apply to starting teams (and can I buy additional gear beyond that when re-equipping), or is it a standing restriction? And so Civilians may never have extra gear, only common weapons and armour?

I read this to mean that Characters can buy a maximum of 2 pieces and Agents 1 piece. Once a Character/Agent is equipped, that's it for the game. When he/she "dies" the Extra gear goes off table with them. Also as Extra gear can't be traded within the Threshold team, civilians can never be equipped with extra gear.

[Argonor]

Once a Character/Agent is equipped, that's it for the game.

I do think that whe re-equipping, you are allowed to change the equipment, though. But it seems to me that you're not allowed to reduce the number of equipment pieces a model has.

I don't have the rulebook here at work, but the wording seems to suggest something like that.

[Whiskyrat]

The rules also say that extra gear can be purchased, and existing gear swapped, but never just discarded of destroyed, which seems to indicate that you may never spend less points on gear when re-equipping than you already have?

Pg. 57 - Read the Re-equipment Phase text and then from Pg.47 - "Extra Gear may not be lost/destroyed but can be changed during the Re-equipment phase."

This would indicate that during Re-equipping you can make all the weapon/armour/Extra Gear changes you want - the only thing you can't do is retire or let go an Agent and Civilian from the team until after the next game he/she dies.  

[Whiskyrat]

I do think that whe re-equipping, you are allowed to change the equipment, though. But it seems to me that you're not allowed to reduce the number of equipment pieces a model has.

I don't have the rulebook here at work, but the wording seems to suggest something like that.

*Lunchtime here in the UK - rulebook to hand*

Pg.47 - "Extra Gear may not be lost/destroyed but can be changed during the Re-equipment phase."

Pg.47 - "Characters may purchase 2 items ...... and Agents may purchase 1"

So Extra Gear can be changed AND it doesn't state that Charcaters/Agents have to purchase Extra Gear.


For me, Extra Gear is just an interesting way to use up the odd points you may have left - a bigger/better gun or Tight Boots? 

[Anatoli]

Haha I feel like in a topic I started a few months ago on the Wyrd forum about my confusion regarding the grey/black Trigger symbols 

Ok, so you can have a character and agents worth of 15 build points, and have additional gear beyond that limit that is never lost. Do you count this unit as 15 build points or 15+ whatever gear so that the Lurkers may adjust to the growing skill/gear supplu of the Treshold team?

[Whiskyrat]

Ok, so you can have a character and agents worth of 15 build points, and have additional gear beyond that limit that is never lost.

The Extra Gear isn't lost in game BUT may be changed during the Re-equipping phase - Pg. 47

Armour/Weapons can be lost in game AND also changed during the Re-equipping phase - Pg. 57

So, you can play a scenario against 20 Cultists and a High Priest but you will need to spend TBPs on equipping your "evolving" Threshold team with weapons/armour to make up the points difference, as the Lurker team is built to the same TBPs as the Threshold team - unless you want to make it more "interesting".