Defiance Games USMC Marines!

[n815e]

They have to segregate the "haters" because people are catching on and not liking it.
As though it wasn't obvious from the get-go that they were just repeating the same bad business model that lost them WF.

[matakishi]

By the way, I was one of the dumb asses who pre-ordered via the Warstore.
Got my refund for the cancelation today.  

Good for the Warstore's customer satisfaction rating, bad for their cash flow.
I bet you'd rather have had the figures though, on time, as promised?

Three months on and they still don't exist except in the Defiance web store where they're still listed as in stock*

*this last is Frothers' inspired hatred of course, not just a statement of verifiable fact 

[Frank Frey]

Greetings,

Well it's time to post on here and take whatever lumps are coming to me. 
First of all allow to explain that I am one of the morons that indeed pre-pay. I've always had success with that in the past and didn't see any reason not to in this case.
I must admit the the rhetoric did indeed take me aback. Not quite the level of some discussions I've been in on politics or religion. My curiosity was genuine. So, I started that thread on Facebook.
So my questions still stands. Matakishi, what exactly happened between you and Tony Reidy?
I've read the threads on TMP. "Train Wreck" is rather generous.
As far as it being nothing but those Evil Frothers then I guess that would include me as well as I am a member. I'm also a Paid Member of the Miniatures Page but above all else I am a gamer.
Now I understand a lot of what has been said on this forum. BTW, I talked to a friend of mine who is a successful business  about Defiance Games. Her first responce was "You didn't send them any money did you?" When I answered yes her next remark was "Bad idea". She then went on to say that if they are "cashing the checks" as it were with no product ready to go that either means that they are undercapitalized which is a really bad business model or that they are running a scam. Since I know one of the folks involved with Defiance Games, I thinking the former.
Anyway if my inquiries have offended anyone well I'm not certain what to say about that.
Finally, I've had dealings with Akula in the past. I've found him to be an honest and honorable gentleman so when he talks I tend to listen rather closely.
Anyway, thank you for reading this.
Frank Frey

[matakishi]

Hi Frank.
Nothing happened between me and Tony.
If you disagree with anything I've written about Defiance games please point out where I'm wrong. They have no product, they're not going to get any anytime soon and they're scamming people out of preorder money in a 'clever' bid to raise funds for the tooling.
They're doing this at the top of their voices too, every games news site has a new Defiance 'story' every other day, each with less actual news content than the last one. The only real news would be 'the Marines have shipped to retailers and customers' but that one never appears.
I don't think it's unreasonable to expect them to put up or shut up. Personally I don't care which they do so long as they choose one before we all drown in the bullshit.

[joroas]

Not all bad press, Paul:

Giacomo Pantalone maybe he is referring to Matashiki. He is one of the most respectful mebers of LAF, and he is not hte only one having issues with tony. I don't have anything about him (tony), but i trust the Matashiki's view, so i'm not very positive about all that.
Beside of that, i'm waiting for the miniatures. if they are good, i'll maybe buy some.

I just read a date of the 5th of March for the plastics to arrive.

[matakishi]

If you want March 5th as your date you need to offer a figure into the prize pot.
(I won't penalise you for your insider information) 

[CptJake]

Okay, I have one of the TFL Hugh Jarce figures that says March 5th WON'T be the date!

[Hrothgar]

I used to be a big supporter of Tony and Howard when they were first getting Wargames Factory off the ground, enough so that I was sometimes called a "fanboy" on TMP (which I don't think was quite warrented   ). When they actually did produce figures, I tended to like them for the most part.

However, after seeing Tony's business practices in action for a long enough period of time, I became sickened of the whole business. The shenanigans I am seeing in this new incarnation of Defiance Games doesn't just seem like more of the same, in some ways it seems worse. It is unbelievable that they are taking money for a product that we can only assume does not exist yet. It would be nice to be proven wrong, but I doubt that will happen. In the meantime, these new releases of artwork, short fiction, and 3-up prototypes all take on a somewhat sinister tone to me because they could easily be interpreted as just another means of getting people to pour money into the project to get it off the ground, rather than a real expression of where the business is going.

[Frank Frey]

Matakishi,

Thank you for your gracious answer. You do indeed live up to your "press".  
March 5th is also the deadline for me. If I don't see any sign of real progress like sprues in hand then I'm going to cancel my pre order and ask for a refund.  I may order again once there is actual product.
You know you would think that after the Wargames Factory debacle that Defiance Games would've learned its lesson. If it were me then all I would been posting is the "Coming Soon" type of hype. Then as the situation with the vendor got clearer, I would start narrowing down...like "Coming this Spring" or even "Projected Release Date". That way you have at least some wiggle room.
FYI I sent in my pre-payment on January 1st (New Years Present to myself  ) since an assured release date of January 16th had been promised. Last time I'll make that mistake.

[Derek H]

It is unbelievable that they are taking money for a product that we can only assume does not exist yet. It would be nice to be proven wrong, but I doubt that will happen. In the meantime, these new releases of artwork, short fiction, and 3-up prototypes all take on a somewhat sinister tone to me because they could easily be interpreted as just another means of getting people to pour money into the project to get it off the ground, rather than a real expression of where the business is going.

They're quite open about the fact that the product doesn't exist yet.  

"The Marines continue to move along in tooling - we received a message from the toolmaker that he was cutting runners (i.e. the place where the plastic flows to get to the parts) and the ejector pin holes (the bits that push the injected frame off the mold) - so far so good."

See http://defiancegames.com/index.php/news/item/marine-and-bug-updates-release-plans

[supervike]

They're quite open about the fact that the product doesn't exist yet.  

See http://defiancegames.com/index.php/news/item/marine-and-bug-updates-release-plans

Not to be argumentitive, but the confusion stems from the fact that the product is (or at least was) listed as IN STOCK.  It cannot both be in stock and non-existant.

[twrchtrwyth]

@Derek, who were you talking about on the Facebook thread?

[robh]

.....SNIP......
However, after seeing Tony's business practices in action for a long enough period of time, I became sickened of the whole business. The shenanigans I am seeing in this new incarnation of Defiance Games doesn't just seem like more of the same, in some ways it seems worse. It is unbelievable that they are taking money for a product that we can only assume does not exist yet.
....SNIP.....

Indeed. I was one of those badly caught by this "lack of business acumen and professionalism"  first time round and eventually bailed out by the supposed Chinese culprits. Then threatened with prosecution for libel by a member of the Defiance fteam for publicly predicting this is exactly what would happen again.

Look at the recent track record (product releases) of the 2 parts of the old WF, one side has multiple new releases in previous and totally new ranges, the other has...........your money?

There is an old saying that goes: Trick me once, shame on you, Trick me twice shame on me.

[Sangennaru]

There is an old saying that goes: Trick me once, shame on you, Trick me twice shame on me.

[Dr.Falkenhayn]

There is an old saying that goes: Trick me once, shame on you, Trick me twice shame on me.

sorry Rob but you got that all wrong