Author Topic: Czech legion ,1st Indepentdent storm battalion uniform query. (Read 5946 times)

twiglet7 · « **on:** 06 January 2012, 09:50:22 AM »

Hello,
did the 1st independent storm battalion wear the "Vladivostok" uniform? The Osprey Czech Legion book shows a grey uniform.

Did they have red collar patches on tunic or the infantry raspberry/ violet colour?

Adrian helmets worn ? The Osprey book shows a Finnish helmet of a type i've not seen before.

Left red arm shield - violet border?

Pete.

cuprum · « **Reply #1 on:** 07 January 2012, 04:55:06 AM »

The book shows the uniforms of the rules.
In fact, strict uniformity in the uniform was not. Especially among ordinary soldiers.
Uniforms were made of material of various protective colors, but wanted to (especially officers) to match the color of French uniforms.

Adrian helmets were used in Siberia, but rarely. Although the storm troopers, perhaps, may be wearing helmets.

That arm-insignia Czechs:

smirnoff · « **Reply #2 on:** 17 October 2016, 10:21:36 AM »

Would it be possible to get a translation of the copy on that chevron image please?

Mark Plant · « **Reply #3 on:** 17 October 2016, 11:51:30 PM »

Quote from: smirnoff on 17 October 2016, 10:21:36 AM

Would it be possible to get a translation of the copy on that chevron image please?

Google has a translate feature. It handled praporcik no problem (ensign).

smirnoff · « **Reply #4 on:** 18 October 2016, 07:15:01 AM »

Thanks, I tried that, but it was more about information which arm of service each was from and as Google translate sadly does not seem to handle everything on that chart so I was not sure if that detail was on there.

I'm looking for information on arm badges for standard infantry, storm/assault troopers, machine gunners and artillerymen.

I think the Storm/Assault troopers had red background, violet border with skull; rank flashes sat behind the skull. Where the troops had them the collar flashes were the same red as the badge background.

smirnoff · « **Reply #5 on:** 18 October 2016, 07:52:29 AM »

I just found this on another forum:

so far as I asked and got few answer from guys on Czech forum. In the patch used to be numbers which stood for regiment. Artillery had for example inside the patch two crossed canons.
But there were also patches with crossed Machine guns and they probably stood for machine gun platoon or company. But here answer isn't so sure.

What is not clear is if the background is the greenish khaki one and the border is the red/violet one

marianas_gamer · « **Reply #6 on:** 18 October 2016, 08:11:51 AM »

Rodger,
Thanks for digging into this and sharing with us. Interesting stuff but shuddering just thinking about painting some of these details

Lon

smirnoff · « **Reply #7 on:** 18 October 2016, 08:13:36 AM »

and just found the answer in:

'Special Corps of Austria and Czechoslovakia, 1918-1945'
By Marcel Roubicek

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Li8fRlzghpoC&pg=PA25&lpg=PA25&dq=czech+legion+arm+badges&source=bl&ots=plwt8k_bBn&sig=NX08bwvv3Iy2FO7VySCIX06wScI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwja_dS04ePPAhXIBcAKHdJ5BUY4ChDoAQhFMAg#v=onepage&q=czech%20legion%20arm%20badges&f=false

'The most prominent part of what went by the name of uniform within the remaining forces of the Coprs were the round visored cap adorned with a white-and-red ribbon sewn on obliquely in front and the heraldic greenish khaki shields denoting both unit membership and rank.
Shield piping:

Black and Red    General Staff
Red         General Officers
Dark Red      Rifle Regiments
Light Red      Artillery
Light Blue      Air Arm
Olive Green   Technical Services
Black         Medical
Dark Blue      Vets
Orange      Admin and Quartermaster
White/black/orange Officer Candidates

Individual regiments if infantry were denoted by Arabic numerals, members of commands by Romans ones, General Officers by the letter CS, members of reconnaissance units by a green triangle, pioneer companies by a crowbar crossed with a spade, machine gunners by a likeness of the weapon, signallers by two crossed lightning bolts, airmen by a propeller, field post by a postal horn, motor mechanics by two wheels with two wings and a steering wheel, railwaymen by a train wheel with two wings, technicians by the letter ‘T’ within a circle and the reserve cadres with the letter ‘Z’, all of these emblems being placed near the shield point beneath the rank chevrons and either painted in yellow or pressed of like tin.
Apart from the cavalry only members of the Storm (Commando) Battalion wore a red sleeve shield, but rimmed in dark red with a white painted emblem of the Jolly Roger. Later this emblem was removed from the shield and placed upon a black or dark blue cloth triangle piped white and sewn on, above the shield.'

There is info on the cavalry in that link as well. In conjunction with the previous shield illustration provided by cuprum this hopefully nails it.
However you can find images on the web for the Storm Battalion patch that has a metal (brass colour) Jolly Roger skull and crossbones.

cuprum · « **Reply #8 on:** 18 October 2016, 06:16:12 PM »

1. Podporuchik 6 streltsi regiment
2. Podpraporchic machine-gun units 11 streltsi Regiment
3. Cetar 1 streltsi Regiment
4. Poruchik shock battalion
5. Praporchic military orchestra 3 Streltsi regiment
6. Soldier Military Police
7. Desyatnik 1 Cavalry Regiment
8. Svobodnik machine-gun company 1 Cavalry Regiment
9. Lt. Col. Staff
10. Colonel Staff of the 1st Division
11. Major Staff of the 2nd Division
12. Cetar at the headquarters of the 3rd Division
13. Desyatnik-aspirant 9 strelets Regiment
14. Poruchik rear services (provisions, quartermaster, etc.)
15. Podpraporchic medical service
16. Chikovatel military orchestra of the 2nd Cavalry Regiment