(KICKSTARTER) Mike McVey "Sedition Wars"

[Inso]

The whole thing about restic has been all over the web. There is so much information about it and the positives and negatives, that there is almost no way that you could say that you were 'uninformed' about the material... Mantic releases and those dreadful USMC troopers (WGF?) being the main products reviewed.

If it said 'resin plastic' on the Kick starter and you didn't notice then you possibly should have... it is in everyone's best interest to check the details before they put money in.

I personally don't have an issue with the material because it is a cheap material that is charged for accordingly. Yes it can have shallow detail, yes it can be bendy and yes it is difficult to clean up but for the money, you get what you pay for.

I didn't get the Sedition Wars box because I have had experience of restic and didn't feel happy to spend all the time required to clean up so many miniatures... but I have put in for Deadzone (and that has a lot of Restic troops but they seem to have deep details from what I have seen... but I have taken a risk and am prepared for the worst).

I can understand the issue if there are miscasts or the miniatures that are in the box don't reflect what has been shown as examples... but if it's just a case of 'I don't like restic' then you should have done some homework before you dropped your cash on it.

[rwwin]

The whole thing about restic has been all over the web. There is so much information about it and the positives and negatives, that there is almost no way that you could say that you were 'uninformed' about the material... Mantic releases and those dreadful USMC troopers (WGF?) being the main products reviewed.

That's Defiance Games, not WGF, and the USMC are hard plastic, not restic.  I believe your thinking of the Chinese troops, which are a material like restic, but not exactly the same.  Which points out a legitimate issue with the trend toward hybrids plastics.  Every companies "blend" of restic seems to be different, with different results. 

[Andrew May]

Ummm, I'm pretty sure when I really think about it that Restic isn't a real thing, so much that its just a combination of the words resin and plastic used for marketing. Does any one know what these figures are actually made of? Are they resin, or injection moulded PVC type figures?

[stone-cold-lead]

Ummm, I'm pretty sure when I really think about it that Restic isn't a real thing, so much that its just a combination of the words resin and plastic used for marketing. Does any one know what these figures are actually made of? Are they resin, or injection moulded PVC type figures?

Isn't it just another type of resin that's hand poured? I don't know whether it's centrifugally cast though.

[rwwin]

From the best I can gather, "restic" (short for resin plastic hybrid, coined after Mantic started to use the material) is a misnomer.  I've attempted to get my wife with a chemistry degree to explain it, and the subject is just horribly, horribly complicated, she starts throwing out big words from organic chemistry and my simple engineer brain starts to loose the thread.  Here's what I've boiled it down to in my own mind:

1.  The term "plastic" is this over-broad term that means many many materials that span a huge spectrum of products.  

2.  Most plastics we run into in the gaming world are not just one chemical, but are a blend of all kinds of hard to pronounce additives that effect everything from flexibility, tensile strength and melting point.  While there are certain families of materials like ABS (Acrylonitrile butadiene styrene), PVC (Polyvinyl chloride), and polystyrene, they usually vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, so the polystyrene you get from a Bandai kit can be vastly different than the polystyrene from Games Workshop.

3.  When most gamers say "plastic" they are usually referring to the classic polystyrene that has been used in model kits for decades.  It's produced at high temperature and high pressure and requires expensive to produce steel molds.  Think everything from old school Airfix to Games Workshop.

4.  The "restic" hybrids come from the PVC family.  They are produced in lower temperature, lower pressure spin cast molds.  The molds can be, but are not limited to metal.  This is the same type of casting technique that has been used for a long time in metal and resin miniatures.  

The bottom line for me is that the term plastic should be ignored these days and any company using the term should be pressed for more details before you fork over any money to them.

[dwartist]

fair comment Inso - but having erred (and I blame nobody but myself for my bad judgement) several times I shall not do it again. no more 'restic' for me.

[Inso]

I think that when we see something we like, we tend to get blinded by the pit falls... I have been guilty of this many times.  It is a real shame that something that often looks great is let down by the material it is made of, or had a misleading paint job etc...

When all is said and done, the only way to deal with the situation is for us all to become more discerning... but that will never happen .

[Ray Rivers]

Anyone that jumped into this kickstarter on the strength of Mike McVey's reputation alone without taking into account CMON and their reputation was being naive.

What utter bullshit...

People bought the stuff based on what was posted on the kickstarter page... stuff like this:

The game contains –

    50 highly detailed 28mm miniatures
    50 Scenic miniature bases
    5 double sided full colour expandable game boards
    60 page rules and scenario book
    Vanguard and Strain stat cards
    100+ full colour game counters

Check out the detail of these great models!

Important: figures are supplied unassembled and unpainted.   Made in plastic.

Now look at that and tell me that we weren't fucked?

And it says "plastic" not "reshit." As I said... it borders on fraud.

[Dewbakuk]

Sorry guys, I pledged really early on and I always knew it was going to be the PVC type plastic. They didn't hide anything. I'd have certainly preferred the hard plastic but I knew what I was getting. They didn't say anything about Restic because there is no such thing, it's a term Mantic has used to describe theirs as it's a plastic that has some of the properties of resin, ie you can bend it when heated.

As an aside, within the modelling scene the 'difference' between a resin model (which is plastic) and a plastic model is the raw materials. Resin is made into a model by mixing two liquid chemical compounds which set into a solid. Plastic models are made by melting the raw material (which comes in little beads generally) and subjecting it to high pressure which sets it into the solid frame. PVC has a low melt point and pressure requirement, so doesn't require the molds that polystyrene needs.

[rwwin]

Now look at that and tell me that we weren't fucked?

And it says "plastic" not "reshit." As I said... it borders on fraud.

Were you mislead?  Probably, but it sure as heck isn't fraud.

It says plastic.  Restic IS plastic.  It's low quality plastic, but it's still plastic.  If you didn't have the experience to ask CMON what TYPE of plastic, or do the due diligence and read the comment responses in the kickstarter that stated it would be pvc, then in my opinion you do bear some of the burden for your disappointment in the figures.

I'm not sticking up for CMON, I believe they are purposefully misleading by putting the beauty shots up front and hiding any negatives in comments or updates, but the information was out there if you were willing to look.

[Andrew May]

Ok, so they're PVC. That explains plenty.

[hubbabubba]

I don't know about any of the details about different types of plastics, I hadn't encountered Mantic's 'restic' before I pledged, I was just reassured by a comment from Mike Mcvey stating that the quality of the models in the game would be similar to the resin versions that I'd seen on t'interwebs immediately prior to the launch of the kickstarter.

This definately was not the case.

I feel that the use of pictures of resin versions and painted resin copies further misleads the punter.

My apologies if my lack of a chemistry degree means that I'm in some way responsible for myself and others being ripped off.

edit: I should add that the gap between the greens of the add ons and the quality of the product I've seen in those photos is abismal.

I don't know if it's fraud but I sure feel ripped off.

[Commander Vyper]

I don't know about any of the details about different types of plastics, I hadn't encountered Mantic's 'restic' before I pledged, I was just reassured by a comment from Mike Mcvey stating that the quality of the models in the game would be similar to the resin versions that I'd seen on t'interwebs immediately prior to the launch of the kickstarter.

This definately was not the case.

I feel that the use of pictures of resin versions and painted resin copies further misleads the punter.

My apologies if my lack of a chemistry degree means that I'm in some way responsible for myself and others being ripped off.

edit: I should add that the gap between the greens of the add ons and the quality of the product I've seen in those photos is abismal.

I don't know if it's fraud but I sure feel ripped off.

+ 1

  

[Col. Aubrey Bagshot]

+2
 

[Momotaro]

The detail on the Sedition Wars figures is better than the first Mantic restic models (some of which went in the bin, and I say that as a big fan of Mantic), but they have the same mouldline issues.  Assembly gave me no problems I've not encountered many times before - I don't regard a model as a failure just because it has bent limbs that need hot water, or needs a bit of greenstuff work, or the material is difficult to glue.

I had no expectations of resin-sharp figures, and I got what I was after - a couple of decent-quality high-tech skirmish forces that look good with a bit of paint.  More recent Mantic restic models also seem sharper (some of the Dreadball models I've seen), so I had no worries pledging for Deadzone.

The stuff that annoyed me was avoidable - mouldlines everywhere, tiny contact areas for glue and the tendency to put the injection points on the pegs that held the models together (and then someone in the factory snipped the whole lot off).  They got it right on the machine-gunners - why not everything else?

I feel sorry for the boardgamers who bought into it - complex models to build, a badly playtested game and warped boards

So I'm very happy with what I got, but I can see why a lot of people are angry at the finished product.

Edit:  altered to make clear that I really do like the models.