Dark ages Welsh - (a new set) Added another green

[Melnibonean]

Hi folks, this is my first attempt at historical sculpting.

Here is the first pic of my first dark ages Welsh figures - A javlin hurler. Info for dark ages Welsh is very scant and after careful consideration I decided to base them on medieval info (which is more prevalent ) whilst at the same time giving them a bit of their old Celtic flair.

Some of the info that I found had them universally in bare feet wearing something similar to a kilt. So I opted for a kilt and shirt ensemble. Medieval sources have them with a knife or short sword hanging down the back so I've incorporated this too. I also decided to give them a shawl secured with a brooch. I'm currently doing 4 javlins, 4 spearmen, a Prince (warlord) and his bondsmen. The latter will be wearing mail and some footwear and the spears will have shields and the occasional helm. This will be followed by sets of variations including some bows. I'll also be adding the warlord and his retinue on shaggy ponies a bit later. The first batch sould be completed and cast within the month.

The idea is to represent a people in transition from their earlier roots to a more recognizable image. Even the concept of a country called Wales was, at this stage of history, somewhere in the future. I've tried to make them look similar to the other peoples inhabiting the Saga Period but trying to define a unique look at the same time.

[traveller]

Wow!

If this is your first sculpt then I want to see more 

[OSHIROmodels]

You're getting good at this 

One comment I would make though is the left arm seems a bit awkward. In the first view (from the front) it seems a little bit unnaturally bent.

Looks great otherwise 

cheers

James

[CyberAlien312]

That's a very nice sculpt! I love it!  

[cram]

Some of the best sculpting I've seen to be honest!

[Melnibonean]

Thanks for the encouragement folks.

One comment I would make though is the left arm seems a bit awkward. In the first view (from the front) it seems a little bit unnaturally bent.

I saw that too but on the actual figure it looks okay, although I might thicken the arm just a little. It looks a bit to thin for the hand.

Some of the best sculpting I've seen to be honest!

Only one thing I would change, and that is to give him short hair. All sources I've come across make note of the Welsh wearing their hair short. Celtic style moustaches (as on your sculpt) were popular but beards were not fashionable though not unknown.

I didn't know that. Thank you. I'll incorporate it!!!

[cram]

Your welcome!  

I'd never claim to be an expert on my ancestors, but I do know a few things. Any questions you may have put them to me and I'll try to give you the (hopefully right) answer.

As for clothing I've come across the garment simular to a kilt myself. Generally though they appear to have worn a knee or sometimes calf length tunic and a thin knee length cloak.

Hope thats of further help

Cheers Marc.

[Melnibonean]

Your welcome!  

I'd never claim to be an expert on my ancestors, but I do know a few things. Any questions you may have put them to me and I'll try to give you the (hopefully right) answer.

As for clothing I've come across the garment simular to a kilt myself. Generally though they appear to have worn a knee or sometimes calf length tunic and a thin knee length cloak.

Hope thats of further help

Cheers Marc.

Marc. I'm Welsh myself - banished to the far, far Antipodes. My father was telling me about the kilt when I was telling him about this project. I've been gathering little pieces of information from here there and everywhere. The problem is, is that there is so little historical info which is why I'm taking a few little liberties.

[Arlequín]

It's a great looking figure!

I'm personally undecided about the long/short hair thing... and I'm tempted to say that short hair might be a feature of the 'upper classes' (or vice versa), if only because it visibly differentiates them from the typical freeman about llys. While quality of clothing might be another, it's less easy to pull off on figures and probably not that definable in real life until you get to nobles and royalty.

I've no evidence for this mind... just the sense that there would be 'something' that would separate them by appearance, like the Irish had perhaps.

 

[cram]

Some links that might be of further help

http://www.swanseamass.org/history/wales/travel/gerald1.html   Interesting reading in general, but also gives a good description of appearance.

http://www.castlewales.com/warfare.html   Maybe a few centuries later than you're planned warriors but still of interest.

A nice description of the son of the Welsh prince Lord Rhys ap Gruffydd:

They were met on the edge of some wood by Cynwrig ap Rhys with his retinue
of lightly-armed young men. Gerald, who seems to have been impressed by his
distinguished bearing and appearance, describes him as "light-complexioned, with
curly hair, fair and handsome, clothed-according to the native custom-in a thin
cloak and vest, with his legs and feet bare, regardless of thorns and briars

Geralds descriptions are again late 12th Century so a little later than your project. But to my understanding apart from the armour worn by the nobility little had changed appearance or tactics wise from earlier times.

[carlos marighela]

Those look superb. Get Nic to cast some up and you have a customer.

[cram]

Melnibonean I had'nt noticed your earlier reply. As you say its hard to find historical info, not a great deal around for later medieval Wales and very little at all for early medieval. In a way its good for a sculptor because it allows you a bit more freedom, its hard for anyone to prove you wrong because of the lack of information to back up most arguments. Anyway good luck with the project and keep us posted. Hope the links are of use, I also have alot of books on the subject so any questions let me know and I'll sift through them and try and find an answer.

Cheers Marc.

[Mitch K]

That is very, very nice indeed. It might even tempt me out of my antipathy towards all things Welsh

[Melnibonean]

Those look superb. Get Nic to cast some up and you have a customer.

Hi Carlos. I'll be taking a couple of finished sculpts to Nic today. He's offered to keep them in the store and show them around whilst I get the rest of them made. Not sure if you're in Melbourne  but if you are go and see him and have a look.

[Christian]

Nic is such a great guy!

And good work on those sculpts! I'm really interested in seeing you tackling a completely different subject... you talented bugger! 

This is a period I am planning to play in time, so I'll be watching this develop with keen interest.

The question for me is one of size... is there any chance of comparison pics at this stage?