Supersystem character stat sharing

[obsidian3d]

I went with the increased density Puck.  I have stats for him but will have to post them after work.

[fergal]

First off, just how popular is Alpha Flight out there?  I'm amazed that most of the people involved in this conversation would rate it near the top of their favorites if not their favorite.  Obviously I'm a big fan as The Guardian was a big inspiration for my flagship miniature.  I would think most folks with go with X-men or Avengers or some other team as their favorite?  Or is it some sort of hard core fan's super team?    I would have to rate the West Coast Avengers as my other big team that I read.

Now, when it comes to playing I'd rather control a horde of henchmen than one or two powerful supers.  I've always been that way, give me 3 units of militia rather than the grenadiers, give me the infantry not the cavalry. 

How are people pointing up a group of 5 or 10 HYDRA goons or 5 or 10 SHIELD field agents?  In a game where most heroes are 85 points, are your henchmen 60 or  70 or 85 points?  I'm thinking in a game with say 4 85point heroes on one side, you get One Super villain (85points) and then what do the henchmen look like for you?

I'm very curious to hear from those who have played and those just getting into Super System.

[styx]

First off, just how popular is Alpha Flight out there?  I'm amazed that most of the people involved in this conversation would rate it near the top of their favorites if not their favorite.  Obviously I'm a big fan as The Guardian was a big inspiration for my flagship miniature.  I would think most folks with go with X-men or Avengers or some other team as their favorite?  Or is it some sort of hard core fan's super team?    I would have to rate the West Coast Avengers as my other big team that I read.

Now, when it comes to playing I'd rather control a horde of henchmen than one or two powerful supers.  I've always been that way, give me 3 units of militia rather than the grenadiers, give me the infantry not the cavalry. 

How are people pointing up a group of 5 or 10 HYDRA goons or 5 or 10 SHIELD field agents?  In a game where most heroes are 85 points, are your henchmen 60 or  70 or 85 points?  I'm thinking in a game with say 4 85point heroes on one side, you get One Super villain (85points) and then what do the henchmen look like for you?

I'm very curious to hear from those who have played and those just getting into Super System.

Alpha Flight is to me like a Rocky Horror following, the people that like it are not main stream followers. Sure we enjoy X-Men and Avengers but John Byrne and most of the writers (save a few) did an excellent job with characters and the writing for the series along with the styled artwork. Plus, it was one of the first International Superhero teams to appear in the comics. Later on Marvel introduced more and some got their own book like Excalibur. The villains was always very unique and the dynamic that their own "younger teams" was used as villains was also a very unique twist. Plus Alpha was one of the first to touch on the "gay" society aspect with Northstar in the series also. To me it was a ground breaking comic that paved the way for many others.

The same goes for the DC side, one of my favorites was Suicide Squad, not the Justice League, Legion of Superheroes or one of the many others. This book used villains, second rate heroes and some grey characters to do gov. opts dirty work missions. I just loved this as the dangers not only of the mission but perhaps even some of the team turning on them just made for one hell of a story and Amanda Waller was just one mean mama!

As for Henchmen groups, I think you have a great deal of ground here, a larger block like 5 or more would be your general grunts or basic agents (aka Shield Reds or Hyrdra chaff) and a smaller group with perhaps better stats, higher vitality and armor (to show better agents) to represent (the shield Whites or aka Admin and special Elite Hyrda agents).

[obsidian3d]

So far I've created statistics for over half a dozen of the Alpha Flight characters, as well as the core Fantastic Four, Dr. Doom, Kang and some Doom bots.  I think 85 points seems quite well suited to 'super' beings and so far I haven't had too much trouble representing most character abilities.  The doom bots were interesting in that 85 points seemed like a lot, even for a group of 10 of them, so I'm still tweaking their numbers a little bit.

As for Alpha Flight, I'm Canadian and was a kid when the original series was running.  I've even got some old original Captain Canuck comics, and was actually able to get one of them signed by Claude St. Aubin back in April.

[styx]

So far I've created statistics for over half a dozen of the Alpha Flight characters, as well as the core Fantastic Four, Dr. Doom, Kang and some Doom bots.  I think 85 points seems quite well suited to 'super' beings and so far I haven't had too much trouble representing most character abilities.  The doom bots were interesting in that 85 points seemed like a lot, even for a group of 10 of them, so I'm still tweaking their numbers a little bit.

As for Alpha Flight, I'm Canadian and was a kid when the original series was running.  I've even got some old original Captain Canuck comics, and was actually able to get one of them signed by Claude St. Aubin back in April.

I liked Canadian's so much I married one that is half Canadian and half Cuban....

[SgtHulka]

Henchmen are a house of cards. Even 60 point Henchmen can pack some punch, since they can coordinate their attacks and get +2 to +4. However, once they start taking casualties, they degrade quickly.

That's why favorite Henchmen are a 70 or 85 pt. Leader and then a 5-9 man henchmen group as his sidekick. If the leader's got some boost powers it gives you some more interesting tactical options than just a straight up henchman group. And if the Leader's 70 pts, and the Henchmen are 60 (12 point sidekick), the leader and the Henchmen are at about the same power level (good for low level agents). If you go with 85/60, then the leader is significantly more powerful (good for elite types).

[styx]

Henchmen are a house of cards. Even 60 point Henchmen can pack some punch, since they can coordinate their attacks and get +2 to +4. However, once they start taking casualties, they degrade quickly.

That's why favorite Henchmen are a 70 or 85 pt. Leader and then a 5-9 man henchmen group as his sidekick. If the leader's got some boost powers it gives you some more interesting tactical options than just a straight up henchman group. And if the Leader's 70 pts, and the Henchmen are 60 (12 point sidekick), the leader and the Henchmen are at about the same power level (good for low level agents). If you go with 85/60, then the leader is significantly more powerful (good for elite types).

Sounds cool, one if the ideas I had was to do a Demonic Toyman of sorts, using Mallifux and other interesting puppets and toys as his creations....working them in henchmen mobs would be a scream...

[fergal]

Henchmen are a house of cards. Even 60 point Henchmen can pack some punch, since they can coordinate their attacks and get +2 to +4. However, once they start taking casualties, they degrade quickly.

That's why favorite Henchmen are a 70 or 85 pt. Leader and then a 5-9 man henchmen group as his sidekick. If the leader's got some boost powers it gives you some more interesting tactical options than just a straight up henchman group. And if the Leader's 70 pts, and the Henchmen are 60 (12 point sidekick), the leader and the Henchmen are at about the same power level (good for low level agents). If you go with 85/60, then the leader is significantly more powerful (good for elite types).

Got an example of one of those groups sarge?  I'd love to see it, seeing the numbers helps me get my head around it.

[styx]

He had a great post that linked to that adapted over Marvel RPG game that had some great henchmen groups of WW2 Germans...

[obsidian3d]

From what I understand, 3rd edition of SuperSystem did away with the sidekick rules.

[styx]

From what I understand, 3rd edition of SuperSystem did away with the sidekick rules.

SS3 has a sidekick upgrade, you can pretty much generate another lower point character. Not sure if there is anything special in the older books that was a huge difference.

[obsidian3d]

Ah I'll have to double check that then. My mistake.

[SgtHulka]

Got an example of one of those groups sarge?  I'd love to see it, seeing the numbers helps me get my head around it.

This probably isn't the best example, because Herr Totenkopf (a Red Skull rip off) doesn't really boost his Gestapo goons. But it gives an example of a bona fide supervillain with henchmen sidekicks.

CN=Gestapo Squad x 5
AFF=Herr Totenkopf
BP=55
AP=7
STR=3
AGL=3
MND=4
RES=1
VIT=5
P0=Sense Weakness
P1=Armor x 2
P2=Combat Prowess x 2
P3=--Specialized
P4=Ranged Attack (6D (1), 60")
P5=--Super
P6=Enhanced Senses x 1
P7=
P8=
P9=

CN=Herr Totenkopf
AFF=Fascist Five (Germany)
BP=85
AP=10
STR=3
AGL=1
MND=8 [1]
RES=2
VIT=5
P0=Elemental Control: Time Manipulation (22 Active Points)
P1=--Full Slot: Prophetic Shot (6D (1) Mind Attack, 60")
P2=--Full Slot: Prophetic Dodge (8D (2) Force Field)
P3=--Full Slot: Time Stop (Hyper Movement, Warp,
P4=-------------No Penetration, Carry Objects)
P5=--Half Slot: Foresight
P6=Sidekick: Gestapo Squad
P7=
P8=

Note that the Gestapo Agents can use Sense Weakness (2 AP), Concentrated Fire (2 AP) and Ranged Attack (3 AP) to gain a 9D attack. Even though their damage is only 6D [1], that still gives them a decent chance to damage a super by carrying over dice from their attack roll. But one casualty drops them to 8D and 3 casualties to 7D.

And then by way of a better example here's my World War II German Infantry squad:


CN=Schutze x 7
AFF=Third Reich
BP=55
AP=4
STR=2
AGL=2
MND=2
RES=2
VIT=7
P0=Edge x 2
P1=Combat Prowess x 3
P2=Armor x 1
P3=Weaponry Gadget Pool (15)
P4=--Full Slot (Kar98/Schmeisser: 6D [1] Ranged Attack, 60")
P5=--Half Slot (Potato Masher: 6D [1] AOE Blast Only, Short Range Only, Burnout Level 2)
P6=--Half Slot (Bayonet/Knife: 5D Melee Attack)
P7=
P8=
P9=

CN=Unteroffizier
AFF=Third Reich
BP=70
AP=6
STR=3
AGL=3
MND=3
RES=3
VIT=6
P0=Sidekick x 11 (Schutze x 7)
P1=Edge x 2
P2=Boost/Drain (2D)
P3=--Boost Only
P4=Combat Prowess x 2
P5=6D [1] Ranged Attack, AOE: Spray, Burnout x 2 (Gear: Schmeisser)
P6=
P7=
P8=
P9=

CN=Munitions Schutze
AFF=Third Reich
BP=55
AP=4
STR=3
AGL=2
MND=2
RES=2
VIT=4
P0=Boost/Drain (1D)
P1=--Boost Only
P2=Combat Prowess x 3
P3=Armor x 1
P4=Weaponry Gadget Pool (15 pt. pool)
P5=--Full Slot (Kar98: 6D [1] Ranged Attack, 60" Range)
P6=--Half Slot (Potato Masher: 6D [1] AOE Blast Only, Short Range Only, Burnout Level 2)
P7=Lesser Vitality x 1
P8=
P9=

CN=Maschinengewehr Schutze
AFF=Third Riech
BP=70
AP=4
STR=2
AGL=2
MND=2
RES=2
VIT=3
P0=Sidekick x 11 (Munitions Schutze)
P1=Combat Prowess x 3
P2=--Specialized
P3=Armor x 1
P4=7D [1] Ranged Attack (MG-34/42: Soul Fire, AOE: Line, Burnout x 2, 60" Range)
P5=Lesser Vitality x 1
P6=
P7=
P8=
P9=

The basis of the squad is the Unteroffizier and the Machine gun Schutze, at 70 points each (roughly the equivalent of a single 85 point super). Everyone else in the squad is a sidekick. The Unteroffizier can boost his sidekicks' agility to 4, increasing their Physical Attack to 7 and their Action Points to 6. That allows them to concentrate fire for a 10D attack. Alternatively, he can boost the squad's Strength to 4, increasing the damage of their bayonet attack to 7D.

The Machine gunner can use the area of effect line of his soul fire attack to hurt most supers, even at half damage, and against soulless supers his assistant can boost his Agility to 3, giving him a physical attack of 7D (thanks to specialization) and he can drop the area of effect for a damage of 7D. Or, if the Unteroffizier comes over to help, he can get boosted to 9D and he has enough action points to strain and increase his damage to 9D.

My plan was to build Sergeant Rock on 85 points with Easy Company as sidekicks, and have them fight the Germans. But I never got around to building Sergeant Rock.

[SgtHulka]

Here are some Marvel Characters I statted up to use with Heroclix. The world that I imaging is an amalgam of Supersystem, Champions, Marvel and D.C. The Supersystem characters are based in Pittsburg, the Marvel ones in New York, the Champions ones in Millenium City (Detroit), and the D.C. ones in Gotham City, Metropolis, and Star City. As a result, everyone knows of everyone else, even though they don't mix very often. But it gives me an opportunity to have my kids' characters meet Captain America and stuff.

CN=Daredevil
AFF=Unaffiliated
BP=85
AP=12
STR=3
AGL=9 [2]
MND=3
RES=3
VIT=6
P0=Melee Attack x 2
P1=Combat Reflexes
P2=Super Leap
P3=--Gear
P4=Enhanced Senses x 2
P5=--Shielded
P6=Ranged Attack (7D,60")
P7=--Super x 1
P8=--Short Range
P9=--One-Shot

CN=Avengers Sky Bike
AFF=Avengers
BP=55
AP=2
STR=4
AGL=1
MND=1
RES=1
VIT=5
P0=Vehicle x 1
P1=--Nimble
P2=--Independent
P3=Flight
P4=Armor x 1
P5=Extra Movement x 5
P6=
P7=
P8=
P9=

CN=Hawkeye
AFF=Avengers
BIO=
BP=85
AP=8
STR=3
AGL=5
MND=3
RES=2
INIT=5
VIT=5
P0=Armor x 1
P1=Combat Prowess x 3
P2=--Super x 1
P3=Sidekick x11 (Vehicle, Skycycle)
P4=Archery Control Pool (21)
P5=--Ranged Attack (Ultra,Max 7D [1]
P6=--Flare (Ultra)
P7=--Darkness (Ultra)
P8=--Entangle (Ultra,Max 5D)
P9=

CN=Bulldozer
AFF=Wrecking Crew
BP=85
AP=6
STR=6 [1]
AGL=4
MND=2
RES=3
VIT=11
P0=Combat Prowess x 4
P1=--Super x 1
P2=Extra Movement x 12
P3=--Charge Only
P4=Melee Attack x 3
P5=--Super x 1
P6=--Charge Only
P7=Lucky
P8=Extra Vitality x 2
P9=Armor x 1

CN=Piledriver
AFF=Wrecking Crew
BP=85
AP=7
STR=6 [1]
AGL=5 [2]
MND=2
RES=3
VIT=11
P0=Combat Prowess x 4
P1=Armor x 1
P2=Instant Stand
P3=Lucky
P4=Pushing
P5=Cunning
P6=Instant Stand
P7=Climbing
P8=Extra Vitality x 2
P9=

CN=Wrecker
AFF=Wrecking Crew
BP=85
AP=7
STR=6 [1]
AGL=4
MND=3
RES=4
VIT=10
P0=Armor x 1
P1=Elemental Control Pool, Gear (19)
P2=--Ranged Attack (8D,15"), Boon (Full)
P3=----Affects Ethereal
P4=----Super x 1
P5=----Short Range
P6=--Combat Prowess (3D), Boon (Half)
P7=----Super x 1
P8=--Melee Attack, (2D), Boon (Half)
P9=----Affects Ethereal

[carlosyc]

I think is a very good idea make characters of similar points

But maybe i´d add more limits, all charaters of 85 points it´s a little...repetitive

For example make characters in three slots: 85, 105 and 125, and play with teams with 3-1-1 heroes of each class