Hyborian, Melnibonean, Barsoom ranges

[Patrick R]

While there are some "not-" ranges, Hyboria, the Young Kingdoms and Barsoom had official ranges, some of them long OOP.  Do you think such ranges would be viable today ?

[tnjrp]

Short answer: viable is as viable does.

However, since you asked and didn't specify it has to be a very informed opinion, here's a longer one:

There are several not-ERB-Mars ranges and while many people disagree with me, I don't personally think "more's the merrier" when it comes to many small players competing for a fairly niche market. Unless you litigated the competion out in which case the gamers/miniature collectors will hates you forever! (Precious!)

And while Howard's, Moorcock's, heck I suppose even Leiber's, Kirk's or Wagner's works were instrumental in creating the swords and sorcery subgenre and influencing its miniature representation, it might be difficult to make officially official stuff based on them to sufficiently stand out among the plethora of similarly styled almost-real-things.

Sure you get hoorays! and me toos! on forums if you propose to make a, say, Corum miniature but I'm not sure how much filthy lucre you'll end up with for making it when folks actually would have flock into your webshop and, like, pay for your stuff. Some of which, like the aforementioned hypothetical official Corum mini, you'd need to licence to boot.

[abdul666lw]

Barsoom imho is quite decently covered by Bronze Age and Tin Man, if they keep enlarging their ranges; I'd add Raging Heroes Fantasy Blood Vestals (given  a pistol -GW plastic DE?- instead of one of their two swords) as Red Martian Amazons:

great bodyguards for

(The Sci-Fi Blood Vestals are not 'Barsoomian' at all, btw).

As for the Hyborian and Melnibonean ages, if you analyze the written description, think about likely sources of inspiration for the authors and are not blinded by the generally unfaithful illustrations (specially in comics), then it's obvious that not a single currently available mini accurately correspond to a warrior type in the books (except maybe a few [Dark] Elves for Melniboneans?).
No need for an expensive 'licensing' (except for its 'advertising' value?), the authors did not draw their designs and the illustrations don't exactly fit the descriptions (which generally leave room for interpretation, anyway). Only the masked Orders of Gran Bretan would pose an IP problem (as would the animal-headed humanoids of Kregen, btw).
Howard's countries are basically historical Ancient / Medieval ones under a transparent pseudonym, but his vision of their fighters was that of his time, based on those late 19th C. reconstructions still used in the Funcken earliest book ('All Ages' vol.1) and Saxtorph. Known now as inaccurate or even fanciful, so no current historical range of figurines have them.
Hyrkanians for instance would look like late 19th C. renditions of Huns


When Howard departed from historical models the transcription is quite easy: his 'jaseran' seems to describe ancient pieces of armor (breast and back plate, vambraces, greaves) worn over a full suit of chainmail, for instance.
No 'Fantasy' range fits these descriptions, thus their is a 'niche' indeed -and most of 'Hyborian' types would easily double as 'Young Kingdoms' ones, but would it be commercially viable? I suppose the answer would be yes *if* the minis were excellent?

[tnjrp]

Only the masked Orders of Gran Bretan would pose an IP problem (as would the animal-headed humanoids of Kregen, btw).

Given the current market, I rather doubt that making a guy in a beast helmet or an animal-headed humanoid is an IP violation if you don't call them by the names used in the books. If you do, it may still not be an actionable violation, but it's bad form especially in the case of Moorcock who happens to be a fairly lively chap still.

[dijit]

but would it be commercially viable? I suppose the answer would be yes *if* the minis were excellent?

This I think is the real answer. People don't want oddly proportioned, badly sculpted minis; they tend to prefer the middle priced/decent sculpts with a leaning towards the higher priced/excellent sculpted ones. Make good minis to a reasonable price and people will no doubt buy them if you market them properly, but if they'll make ends meet is another question along together.
Duncan

[abdul666lw]

"NOT" Hyborian minis would be useable in most Fantasy settings -Young Kingdoms, Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, Dragonlance... and even Glorantha. The question is, are *wargamers* playing in these setting numerous enough?

[Heldrak]

The works of Michael Moorcock seem to be fading into obscurity with the youth of today, so I would question the viability of a Young Kingdoms line (That is, unless the long-rumored "Elric of Melnibone" movie comes to fruition). 

[tnjrp]

Somebody thinks old Mike's stuff still has some commercial potential tho, at least on the British market, since a new line of publications has been recently launched by Gollancz. On the subject of the Young Kingdoms

There will be seven Elric omnibuses. The first six will be led by the six main Elric novels, with some chronologically linked stories inserted around them, plus some of the bonus (mainly non-fiction) material from the Del Rey editions. The seventh omnibus will be 'Elric: The Moonbeam Roads' (containing 'Daughter Of Dreams', 'Destiny's Brother' and 'Son Of The Wolf', the last two of which appear in the U.K. for the first time in February)

I seem to recall that Elric: The Balance Lost graphic novels also were well received and decent sellers.

[abdul666lw]

For Gran-Bretan several manufacturers sell Sci-Fi helmets with animal masks (though neither boars nor cranes as yet); the 'tech' details are not a great embarrassment, the world of Hawkmoon being one of 'weird science 'rather than fantasy. It would not be hard to put them on a body in medieval - renaissance armor, probably of 'exotic' type (Late Byzantine, Ottoman, Indian, even Chinese?) not to look to obviously as a converted European type; other useable bodies those of Privateer Press Skorne and Minifigs Knights of the Silver Rose, not too small by current standards.

[The Dozing Dragon]

I haven't seen this one before - do you have any more details please?

Dave

[abdul666lw]

"Pillage d'une villa romaine par les Huns", Georges Rochegrosse, 1893.
B&W reproductions turn out on ebay, hence the images available on the web; none in colors, unfortunately.

The 'Huns' here -who were to be 'iconic' for Genghis Khan's Mongols as well as Attila's Huns until the mid-20th C.- have the features, clothes, arms (the odd warscythe...) and armor of Yakuts and other mounted tribesmen of Eastern Siberia as they appear on late 19th C. drawings and photos.

[Doomhippie]

"Pillage d'une villa romaine par les Huns", Georges Rochegrosse, 1893.
B&W reproductions turn out on ebay, hence the images available on the web; none in colors, unfortunately.

The 'Huns' here -who were to be 'iconic' for Genghis Khan's Mongols as well as Attila's Huns until the mid-20th C.- have the features, clothes, arms (the odd warscythe...) and armor of Yakuts and other mounted tribesmen of Eastern Siberia as they appear on late 19th C. drawings and photos.

And to me, as a bonus, these Huns look exactly like I have always pictured Easterlings in Lord of the Rings.
I agree that Moorcock's works seem to be less and less known today (at least in the younger generation). And let's face it, his protagonists aren't really very sympathetic people, his world seems to be a world noone would want to live in and after every book I read I had the feeling of having been cheated out of any potentially positive ending.

[Vermis]

Aye, that.  I found a book of Fafhrd & Grey Mouser stories in a wee second-hand bookshop a few days ago.  The foreword's by Moorcock and he can't resist taking a swipe at Tolkien. "Sure, Mike," I thought. "I bet you wish you had an 'unhealthy cult' half the size."
It got me thinking just why Moorcock, Leiber et al are more obscure, and while I won't have a definitive answer anytime soon, I'd tend to agree with Doomhippie.  Maybe I can't easily relate to a lofty goody-two-shoes like Aragorn (which, I'd argue, wasn't the point), but I can't easily relate to thieves, killers, and the demonically-possessed either.

[FramFramson]

Well, in Tolkien's world, you're supposed to relate to the Hobbits moreso than the other characters anyway.

I think Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser are actually fairly relateable as characters, it's more that their thunder was stolen by Conan and other similar works.

Conan was lucky enough to be splashed into a lot of other properties early on - a movie series in the 80's and a long and successful comic run in the 70's. While Conan might have started out only slightly more popular that Fafhrd or Elric, he became much more enduring because the kids of more recent generations had many more gateways to discover Conan.

I think that Moorcock and Lieber's work compares much more closely to Howard's work. Tolkien is much more romantic-high-nerdy (and yes, it's much cleaner - no real "whoring and wenching" there...). Instead of getting the movie or comic treatment, Tolkien was spread in the 70's and 80's by things like mentions in Prog or Rock songs or mentions in drug culture zines (I wonder how many people came to discover Tolkien becuase of lyrics in Led Zeppelin songs).

Tolkien's work also had something none of the others did: A "gateway" book for young readers in The Hobbit, which none of the other properties had. Lots of people came to Tolkien because they got the Hobbit in grade 6 English or somewhere like that.

[tnjrp]

I think that Moorcock and Lieber's work compares much more closely to Howard's work

Fafhrd is IIRC more or less or confessed Conan send-off tho Leiber was good enough an author to manage avoiding pastiche with a panache. Moorcock's characters and his "pulp novel" writing in general are more properly subversive of the tropes surrounding the much imitated sword and sorcery achetype -- at a fairly different end of the spectrum from the old school Weird Tales stuff.