By Arrow, Bill & Sword (rules questions)

[Silent Invader]

A thread for questions on the By Arrow, Bill & Sword rules, initiated by and carried over from here:

http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=47708.30

Regarding rules, they're now available via my internet store as a free download.

www.miniatureMOJO.co.uk

The download link can be found on this page here:

http://www.miniaturemojo.co.uk/products/15/25/by_arrow_bill_and_sword/

First question, also carried over:

@silent invader
I suggest that you make a seperate thread for your rules "By Arrow, Bill & Sword".

I don't understand the point about playing cards
"Players are dealt cards for the order of initiative to make two moves each of either a single character or an eligible group."
Are they ordinary plaing cards?  Do you deal one per character or one per unit?
Does it go King goes first then Queen, Jack, 10, 9, 8 etc down to ace being last?
Are all suits the same value?

Thanks
Mick

And answers carried over:

They were just numbered cards Mick, although you could use playing cards, yes. One card for each battle or command in the game. We had four players in this game, each with two battles under their command, so had numbers 1 - 8 to decide initiative for the various commands.

Thanks Richard.

Very happy to answer questions on LAF.

As Richard said, any cards (or dice but you have to reroll for draws) with a numerical sequence will do, as its just a means of finding which player goes in what order, with a player having his/her two opportunities to do stuff, then the next etc. 

Thanks folks!

[vonplutz]

I have some questions.

Combat:
-Do you make one roll for each combatant in combat or one roll for the unit as a whole?
-If the prior do you then add the total for the unit and compare it with the total of the opposing one? (I think this is what your rules are saying but I'm not totally sure)
-The difference between the rolls is how many hits are landed and need to be saved? Thus making the winning side never take casualties?

Effect:
-If you have a unit who loses combat but passes the saving throw do they still flee if the roll is over 6?
-Since you roll the saving throw for each individual in a unit does this mean part of the unit would flee and part would not?
-Do they flee the base distance or the running distance or some other fleeing distance?
-When you say, "... otherwise flight will continue the next turn (but be in addition to the player’s usual allocation of moves per turn)." Does this mean he will flee a distance then be able to act normally or does he keep fleeing until rallied by a commander?
-Since the commanders cannot flee do they just keep slugging out the fight until they die or the opponent is dead or fleeing? If so this doesn't seem all that realistic, they're only human and would flee as well.

[vonplutz]

Thanks a bunch. Some more questions spawned from these and from mulling these over tonight. Sorry I'm so inquisitive but you and Captain Blood have been my biggest inspirations to start painting and playing again. Also your battles look amazing and if these rules work for you guys I can't see myself not being happy with them as well.

Force Composition:
-Are there any limits to how the force is composed?
-If not how does that effect balancing?
-Does a single unit need to be composed of the same quality of troops? Could I theoretically have a single unit composed of a man at arms, 3 archers and 2 billmen and just do their rolls separately to factor their modifiers before adding them all together?
-Does a man at arms in a unit still have influence?
-If the last question in the activation section is not true wouldn't it make the most sense to only take one unit for each commander allowing both him and the unit to act and just have a large quantity of commands?
- when you say, "Men-at-Arms (who are fully or ¾ armoured) have the influence to gather two units together to move as one." do you mean two units of men at arms or any two units under the command of men at arms?

Activation:
-Just to clarify for me in simple terms how this works.
1st: make a deck of cards with a card for each commander
2nd: when a card for a commander is drawn he may make two actions (this means if he has 3 units under his command he can only move 2 of them and he himself cannot move?)
3rd: combats/shooting is resolved (shooting falling under movement a unit could theoretically move then shoot as a single action, or shoot then move?)
4th: another card is drawn.
-Further the eligible influence chart shows how many units each commander can issue orders to but the units which he commands are not limited to his orders? (ie. a man at arms has 2 units, commands one to move and moves with it, then a captain commanding three units moves one of his and then the last of the ones under the man at arms' control)

Movement:
-Are there any restrictions to running? As in cannot run within a certain distance of an enemy, or negative modifier to shoot? If not I don't see why people wouldn't just run everywhere.
-Do charges need to be declared?

Effect:
-1-5 for everyone is death?
-Heavy cavalry/maa on foot/light cavalry cannot flee as they succeed on a roll lower than 6?
-retinue archer/billman/pikeman flee only on a roll of 6?
-the rest flee on a 6-#bellow the minimum roll required?
-If a roll is passed they stay in combat and it becomes a draw?

[Lowtardog]

If not already the rules and thread should be a sticky mate

[vonplutz]

I'll get back later today, when I can get in front of my PC 

Thank you.

[vonplutz]

Ok mostly clear now still a bit lost on unit activation.
-In the list you posted you have the overall army commander and a unit he is attached to? Does he take up his actions independently or does he count as moving and fighting with the unit only using one activation?
-Each warband looks to be broken into two units, one led by a captain/knight another by a maa. Does the maa still activate the unit he is moving with or does it have to be the captain?
-"Each player has up to two opportunities to do stuff but a unit can only be activated once per round.  So if a commander has all of his army in his area of influence and moves every unit as one of his opportunities, then his second opportunity is forgone as there's no one left to move." This makes it sound like a move for every unit in the army counts only as a single action and is further confusing me.

Sorry again for continuously pelting you with questions. I think after this is clarified I should be good.

[vonplutz]

-So a commander can order everything inside his command range to do one thing and it is only one activation? ie. commander with three units commands all to advance and still has an activation (though nothing to activate). Could a theoretical situation arise that he orders two units to march, and the third to charge thus using two activations?

-Or am I completely off and the entire army only makes two actions, not two actions per commander?

-Can commands be given outside of a command radius?

No need to apologize. I feel I may be over analyzing these rules and they're simpler than I am making them out to be. Or I'm just dumb as a cinder block, either works.

[vonplutz]

OK! I think I got this!

The army commander can give two different actions and any number of units in his radius can act on one of those two. Lets say he commands to move and to burn down a cottage. Of his 3 units and one cannon inside his radius, two units move, one burns down the cottage but the cannon can only choose to do one of those given commands thus it cannot shoot as that would be a third command? If a fourth unit is added outside his radius a command of his two would need to be given up to only activate that unit? Thus he could command any number of units inside his radius to burn the cottage but needed to use the other command to tell the fourth unit to move back inside his radius?

[Gibby]

Unable to download these as apparently they're out of stock.

[Phil Robinson]

Ignore the buy it now bit, click on the link as described in the text.

[vonplutz]

Thank you! I finally get it now, and it has been revealed to me I AM as dumb as a cinder block. 

[Gibby]

Ignore the buy it now bit, click on the link as described in the text.

Doh! That'll teach me to not open the page for the rules and just use the basket features. Sorry chaps!

[vonplutz]

Not at all!  

There are aspects to the rules that I think differ to the conventions that some are used to, tho what these differences are I am not entirely sure (I am not generally a reader of really expansive rules - I tend to just look at the pictures).  Anyways, I  glad you persevered.  

As I said you and Captain Blood have been my greatest inspirations. I also REALLY like that individuals, not just units, can flee and that a unit isn't homogeneous. Both of these add a lot of medieval flavour. As I will be using smaller units to start I may do combats individually as the test melee I ran basically made everyone test for a route. Because the number of men was so low it threww everything in the favour of the charge.

[commissarmoody]

Finally got the rooms printed out, Time to give them a try.

[commissarmoody]

I blame Auto correct! And posting way to late. And yes rules .