*
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
July 03, 2022, 09:41:57 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Donate

We Appreciate Your Support

Recent

Author Topic: Sailor Uniforms - are they always white?  (Read 12486 times)

Offline fastolfrus

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 5162
Re: Sailor Uniforms - are they always white?
« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2013, 12:51:34 PM »
oh, I see. In Scandinavia it is reversed - that makes sense!

No, just me fooling about.

Victorian naval uniform wasn't as heavily regulated until the mid 1800s, so you could see different uniforms from different ships, although mainly blue.
Some navies chose to issue tropical whites, some even issued things like broad brimmed straw hars.

Modern navy uniforms have quite a bit of variety, at least 3 or 4 options, parade/ceremonial, working rig, action working dress (things like anti-flash hoods etc), mess dress, and in some cases tropical rigs too.

For VSF I would have thought you should issue your own dress regs.
You don't even have to follow navy guidelines, aeronefs may look like ships but they don't have to be crewed by sailors. Maybe they are a branch of military engineering, so could have pioneer uniforms? Scout 'nefs might be manned by cavalry as reconnaissence vessels, or by coastguards etc for anti-smuggling duties.
Gary, Glynis, and Alasdair (there are three of us, but we are too mean to have more than one login)

Offline fastolfrus

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 5162
Re: Sailor Uniforms - are they always white?
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2013, 01:00:13 PM »
Another thought for the Norwegian 'nefs.
How about the Norwegian HMKG?
The royal guards wear a distinctive black uniform with a hat that looks a bit like a Napoleonic British marine with a large plume.

You could even consider a mixed crew- naval uniforms flying the thing and HKMG manning guns etc.

Offline Lowtardog

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 8250
Re: Sailor Uniforms - are they always white?
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2013, 04:00:13 PM »
Depends on what washing powder they use and whether they mix coloured clothing with whites in the same wash  ;D

Offline argsilverson

  • Scatterbrained Genius
  • Posts: 2580
Re: Sailor Uniforms - are they always white?
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2013, 07:43:39 PM »
Remember that Confederate Navy wore a grey uniform (to distinguish themselves from the Union sailors).

Germans in east africa and british in sudan did wear their blues! (maybe they have forgotten their tropical whites ? )

But also note that sea is blue on Earth so the sailors opted for blue (sea) and white (foams), but if you want to place your navy on Mars or Venus where the predominant colours are reds, you may paint your navy in various reds/crimson/wine red and whatever!

BTW during Napoleonic wars french naval officers did wear reds while Napooleon himself had a unit in canary yellow!!! (I think it is in some Osprey). Synthetic dyes were a later invention (mass production of most dyes started in around mid 19th century) but blue is an easy colour to achieve using indigo and white is also easy to get since both linen and cotton is white and bleaching is also an easy task to do. That's the main reasons to use blue and whites. Nowdays US, british and many other navies use khaki, sky blue and denim colours. All of these are based on synthetic dyes and all of them are difficult colours to achieve. Almost only parade uniforms of today are in white (and blue) depending on the season.
argsilverson

Offline carlos marighela

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 9294
Re: Sailor Uniforms - are they always white?
« Reply #19 on: March 28, 2013, 10:31:12 PM »
White is a practical colour for sailors, it hides the seaman's stains. As Ms Lewinsky so ably demonstrated, blue does not have quite the same properties.
Flamengo: Campeões brasileiros 2019, 2020.  Copa Libertadores 2019. Supercopa do Brasil, 2020, 2021

Mais de 40 milhões de torcedores, somos uma nação.

Eu sempre te amarei
Onde estiver estarei
Oh meu Mengooo

Tu és time de tradição,
RAÇA, AMOR e PAIXÃO
Oh meu Mengooo!

Offline Mason

  • Elder God
  • Posts: 21075
  • Eternal Butterfly!
    • Blind Beggar Miniatures
Re: Sailor Uniforms - are they always white?
« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2013, 10:32:23 PM »
 lol lol lol

Thanks, Carlos.
I now have coffee all over the keyboard!


Offline Bullshott

  • Scatterbrained Genius
  • Posts: 2630
  • I need a bigger hammer
    • http://www.flickr.com/photos/27772452@N07/sets/
Re: Sailor Uniforms - are they always white?
« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2013, 10:33:22 PM »
This is a question I can answer, as I am currently researching naval uniforms for re-enactment:

The first regulation uniform for naval ratings was for the Royal Navy in 1857. This was based on the common clothing already in use by the navy prior to this date. Every other navy copied this - the main difference being variations of the hat (even the Confederate uniform was the same, only grey to differentiate from the Union uniform.

Two uniforms were used. One was in blue wool for 'best' and land use in cooler climates. The other was in white cotton drill for use in tropical climates and for general use onboard anywhere.

Why white for onboard use when the uniform would easily get dirty from black powder and coal dust? Simple - you'll ruin a wool uniform if you hot wash it, but a heavy cotton uniform can be boiled to death and still be wearable (and clean) afterwards.

For campaign use when serving in naval brigades for long periods ashore the blue uniform was used (e.g. in the Zulu War) as this protected the wearer from the temperature drop at night and didn't make him such a target as a white uniform would. In very hot climates (e.g Egypt) the blue top could be worn with white trousers.

EDIT: Badges consisted of rank and good conduct (long service) stripes on the left arm and a trade badge on the right. On working uniforms badges were red on blue uniforms (white badges prior to 1860) and blue on white uniforms. On blue dress uniforms rank and good conduct badges were gold.

Royal Navy hats would be a blue cap (initially soft but, later becoming stiffer) or a sennet (woven wide brimmed) hat - natural 'straw' coloured with a white uniform or in the tropics or with a black cover if worn with the blue uniform in northern climates.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2013, 02:19:09 PM by Bullshott »
Sir Henry Bullshott, Keeper of Ancient Knowledge

Offline Mason

  • Elder God
  • Posts: 21075
  • Eternal Butterfly!
    • Blind Beggar Miniatures
Re: Sailor Uniforms - are they always white?
« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2013, 10:37:51 PM »
Blimey, Bullshott!
Very informative.

That seems to settle it nicely, and also explains why my sailors have blue tops and white trousers.
Thank you very much!
 :)


Online Plynkes

  • The Royal Bastard
  • Elder God
  • Posts: 10016
  • I killed Mufasa!
    • http://misterplynkes.blogspot.com/
Re: Sailor Uniforms - are they always white?
« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2013, 10:55:07 PM »
For campaign use when serving in naval brigades for long periods ashore the blue uniform was used (e.g. in the Zulu War) as this protected the wearer from the temperature drop at night and didn't make him such a target as a white uniform would. In very hot climates (e.g Egypt) the blue top could be worn with white trousers.

This wasn't always followed in the field. The Zulu War saw the brigades from the different ships each wearing different uniform variations, ranging from all blue to all white, with white-blue combinations in between. Similarly you see photos of Royal Navy sailors dressed all in blue and also others in tropical whites during Boxer Rebellion.
With Cat-Like Tread
Upon our prey we steal...

Offline Bullshott

  • Scatterbrained Genius
  • Posts: 2630
  • I need a bigger hammer
    • http://www.flickr.com/photos/27772452@N07/sets/
Re: Sailor Uniforms - are they always white?
« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2013, 11:01:56 PM »
This wasn't always followed in the field. The Zulu War saw the brigades from the different ships each wearing different uniform variations, ranging from all blue to all white, with white-blue combinations in between. Similarly you see photos of Royal Navy sailors dressed all in blue and also others in tropical whites during Boxer Rebellion.

True - it very much depended on what the captain sent his men ashore in.

Offline Franz_Josef

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 425
Re: Sailor Uniforms - are they always white?
« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2013, 11:02:19 PM »
They needn't necessarily even be sailors,  In the pre- World War One Imperial German Zeppelin service, the Luftschiff troops wore a blue uniform like other Prussian troops, but with a black shako like the jaegers (instead of a spiked helmet).  For "field" deployments, they would wear the flat topped, saucer-like fatigue cap.    

Offline Franz_Josef

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 425
Re: Sailor Uniforms - are they always white?
« Reply #26 on: March 28, 2013, 11:05:13 PM »
And a common combination for sailors on detached duty was the blue tunic worn with white trousers. More interesting than all white (or all blue, for that matter).

Offline Mason

  • Elder God
  • Posts: 21075
  • Eternal Butterfly!
    • Blind Beggar Miniatures
Re: Sailor Uniforms - are they always white?
« Reply #27 on: March 28, 2013, 11:07:15 PM »
And a common combination for sailors on detached duty was the blue tunic worn with white trousers. More interesting than all white (or all blue, for that matter).

Great!
That makes mine officially 'detached'.
 :D

Offline rob_alderman

  • Scatterbrained Genius
  • Posts: 3718
  • Dribbling wreck...
Re: Sailor Uniforms - are they always white?
« Reply #28 on: March 28, 2013, 11:22:38 PM »
If your seaman isn't white, you should probably visit a doctor...  lol

Sorry, couldn't resist! :P

But yeah, it is VSF, Victorian Science FICTION. Of course, we all like things to be believable though... I dunno, I am afraid!

Offline Sinewgrab

  • Scatterbrained Genius
  • Posts: 2907
  • All to all, by my mustard!
Re: Sailor Uniforms - are they always white?
« Reply #29 on: March 29, 2013, 02:18:28 AM »
They don't. You are mistaken. That's all I can add, really. What you are saying just isn't borne out by the pictorial references we have from the period.

From someone else, I might take that as a challenge - however, as I am confounded trying to find things like this, and having been in awe of the library of uniform knowledge you drag around your skull, all I ask is - is any of this online?  When I went looking for uniform colors for sailors, all I could find was black and white photos that did me no good whatsoever, or painted models that don't reference any sources...

From what I am hearing, though, I would be just fine in painting these is the same color I am using for all of the other Norwegian uniforms, and it would not be out of line?  I have been playing with blue pants and white shirts, with a red or black whatever that bit hanging off their shoulders is called for color.  Thank you, though, to everyone who has responded.  I love this forum.

And hats off to the seamens' joke, Carlos.  Oh, and Rob, get your coat.  Door's on the left.
"There is no known cure for the wargaming virus, only treatments with ever increasing doses of metal."

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
A sailor a day...

Started by Hammers « 1 2 ... 6 7 » Workbench

99 Replies
19743 Views
Last post February 26, 2008, 01:33:06 PM
by Aaron
57 Replies
83092 Views
Last post August 08, 2016, 03:33:46 PM
by Mike Blake
8 Replies
3401 Views
Last post March 30, 2009, 12:47:05 PM
by Orctrader
31 Replies
4506 Views
Last post January 13, 2013, 08:40:52 PM
by huevans
10 Replies
2473 Views
Last post February 24, 2013, 12:45:13 AM
by Sterling Moose