Terragnosis: Sulphur

[Commander Vyper]

Vehicles are ok curtis but your figures aren't to the same quality: also be better to post your own thread than poncing off a thread aimed at generating support for another small business?   

 If someone did this in your recent KS I'm sure you would have been unimpressed mate


Anyway.

32mm would fit with several post apoc resin companies from europe and the uk. Nice renders and more interested now I know they're resin. Be good for a little skirmish game.

[Quirkworthy]

Looks like an interesting mix. I really like some of the models and others don't do it for me. So that's like most ranges.

I'm really waiting to see what the rules are like.

[Commander Vyper]

Interesting update on the kickstarter page.

 Prints look really nice!  

[Not yet dead]

Does anyone know Where these Figures are Printed before Casting? Cause they Look really smooth! Would be nice to find a 3D Printers that you do it so Good.

Cheers

[Ramshackle_Curtis]

Vehicles are ok curtis but your figures aren't to the same quality: also be better to post your own thread than poncing off a thread aimed at generating support for another small business?   

 If someone did this in your recent KS I'm sure you would have been unimpressed mate

Yeah, sorry about that, I guess I came across wrong. I really like these renders, very nice. Having read the other comments, I was just trying to say there were other things available! Also, as the thread was started by someone else, I thought it more of a discussion than a promotional thing. Sorry to cause offence!

linky???

LGW

My signature is a link to my site.

[Commander Vyper]

You did, but thanks for recognising it appreciated.

There's been some clarification on pledge levels and it's already half funded so fingers crossed.

Come on it's not a massive amount asked for so let's hope this gets the support it deserves.

[Commander Vyper]

Look cool, be nice to see the prints of these.

More info here:

http://www.terragnosis.co.uk/sulphur_preview.shtml

[Commander Vyper]

From the creator of Terragnosis about 3 hours ago very wise words, probably one of the few little kickstarters that is trying to look for genuine support:

The idea that Kick starter prices should somehow be lower is not helping things.. its only something that a big company can afford to do because you need buying power to get lower base costs.

If we ran a discount we would end up with nothing left to keep development going, and would end up working for nothing.. to say nothing of the costs we have already incurred in developing what we have, skills like these are not and should not be free.

For us Kickstarter means finding enough funds to "kickstart" something. if we dont have enough funds at the end to continue development, then it all becomes academic and dries up, which dosent help you (the customers) or us.

So we don't have a kickstarter discount, prices are as they would be after release. I don't think we have tried to say otherwise elsewhere...

Realistically, if we dont raise the funds then we have to release it all directly through our online store, but slower, and only as funds become available..

Its the slower route, but we might end up taking it if people keep pulling out..I have to say I do find it frustrating that existing companies, who already have a huge customer base and resources to call on, use kick starter to suck every last penny they can, it leaves very little for the smaller fry like ourselves who really need kickstarter for what it was intended..We will keep pushing and hope we make the target, its a very nice product, worth the investment, and if we don't make it, we will find another way to get it out there.

If u do like the look of it give it a go.

The Commander.

[CptJake]

I get his point but...

If we ran a discount we would end up with nothing left to keep development going, and would end up working for nothing.. to say nothing of the costs we have already incurred in developing what we have, skills like these are not and should not be free.

For us Kickstarter means finding enough funds to "kickstart" something. if we dont have enough funds at the end to continue development, then it all becomes academic and dries up, which dosent help you (the customers) or us.

He assumes customers don't have alternatives here.  If it all dries up, those potential customers buy other stuff from other vendors. 

An alternative way for them to look at it would be 'If we offer a discount and take a short term loss, that loss is mitigated by us being capitalized to release a more complete line in a very compressed time schedule which in turn would allow us to increase after KS sales via our web store/other distribution mechanisms'.

It is all about risk and risk mitigation.  KS already allows them to dump risk onto backers, that is what KS is all about.  If they are willing to shoulder more of the risk themselves they potentially see quicker and higher gains.  An unwillingness to accept more of the risk and demand backers accept it all could stall the project and see them lose what they already have in it or at least dramatically slow down the gains.   

Only Terragnosis can really say what their situation is, but the excuse for not offering some type of a discount to those willing to capitalize their company prior to product being available is just that, an excuse.

[Commander Vyper]

No I get that,  I also get the little guy's frustrations with the large company approach to cash trawl when they do have money and are just not prepared to front

Anyway thought I'd share.  Cheers.

[CptJake]

I get you.   I just see it as a two way street.   Yes, backers feel entitled to discounts/good deals on KS.  Having said that, the companies running KS projects feel entitled to risk free dollars from backers and, especially smaller companies, are seemingly dumping a disproportionate amount of the risk of a business venture on backers, risk they are unwilling to shoulder but want the rewards from.

In this particular case, Terragnosis potentially gets a level of capitalization which lets them rapidly expand a product line.  That has benefit, but they seem to not want to attach any price tag to that benefit to pay for it (say by offering a discount to those willing to capitalize their company).   They want to reap the reward.

Great business model, if you can sell it to the backers.  Getting upset when called on it surely is not a good thing.

[Commander Vyper]

Yeah it's a strange psychologically driven beast this e-begging bowl.

[Quirkworthy]

Kickstarter is definitely a strange beast, and also a rapidly evolving one. I've been involved in several campaigns (from both sides) and have seen it change quite a bit over the last year. I expect it to continue changing as the customers who use it mature in their understanding and expectations, along with the companies that use it to raise funds.

Sulphur is asking for a very modest amount to fund their models. There's no rule that they should discount stuff, there's just an expectation. Understanding the difference in economics for small and large companies, and therefore what they can afford to do, is one of the things I think people will gradually learn.

Interestingly, if you read Kickstarter's own comments on this topic, they always stand firmly behind the little guy (despite making the bulk of their profit form the bigger campaigns).

It's all very confusing.

[Ramshackle_Curtis]

My last kickstarter was run at the cost it would take to get it off the ground. IM sure its the same with these guys. Adding free stuff is feasable if you keep it modest: I added sets of figures and spare parts to the rewards. THese cost me pence in actual production costs, but increase the value to the customer. These were all models that I wanted to fund with the kickstarter anyway.

For me the biggest cost is distribution, ie postal charges. THen comes fees (about 10%), then materials.

I was selling tanks and soldiers, £8 for 10 soldiers, £16 for 30. The tanks were £16 each. I did a deal for 20 soldiers plus a tank for £32. I then added extra soldiers  (heavy weapons and sergeants) for free. I also did a bundle of 3 tanks for £49.

There was an added cost to send models outside europe, so I included this as a requisite payment. It made the £32 deal £39 I think.

This then cost me £20 to send, £6 to manufacture, leaving £13.38 profit.

This profit has to pay for my development time, plus manufacture (inc miscasts), packing and postage. It also has to cover the 5% "lost in the post". I can certainly add extra copies of the models that are already being made as part of the deal without it denting the bottom line too much.

Its a great way to fund a project, as I got ALOT more sales than I would by releasing it the way I normally do. BUt it has been alot of work, and because I went way over the initial funding target (1600% funded!) I will miss my delivery dates by about a month.

FOr something like this sulpher project, they have to price it accordingly, but I dont get thier pricing. £8 for a single model? Then £12 for 4 models, then £55 for a small buggy, 5 figs ? Comon!

Those prices are the normal for resin figures sold through retail and distribution, so must include the 60% cut by the distributor. Those are not realistic KS prices. How can it cost twice as much to cast a hero as a trooper? Thats just inflated costings based on funtion "in game" and does not represent actual cost. At least it includes shipping!

Surely the hero should be £8 OR free when you buy a squad of 4 models. This would not increase thier bottom line very much, as they are already comitted to producing the hero model, and are charging way over the price of the other models in their range, for no real reason.

[tnjrp]

Well, as we all know by now Terragnosis' Sulphur KS was aborted. However, the development has been continuing with a bit less pomp and circumstance. The link to the current state of affairs this year is unsurprisingly
http://www.terragnosis.co.uk/news2014.shtml