Playing with big round based ancient armies?

[Prof.Witchheimer]

Well. It's being a long time since I've played big Ancients armies. Warhammer Ancient Battles was my rulebook. My bases were square. I have enjoyed my games, the world was a proper place, everything was easy and good.  The things have changed a bit since then. One day I've discovered that I'm actually able to use my coins or washers for basing and I liked how this came out. It was the day when my square-based armies died.
Now I wonder if there is a rules set out there providing a similiar tactical and strategical depth, also kind of regiment formations and ranks and allowing playing big (up to 100 models or more) but round-based armies.  I just don't want to rebase my miniatures again and I don't like the square look.
I don't think SAGA could be that game as I am really wanting to play regiments again.
Also Impetus wouldn't be my cup of tea, for the same reason, I don't like their kind of basing.
Has anyone perhaps  experienced playing WAB that round-based way? Any ideas? I hope there is a way making this because I still like the rules and would love to use the countless supplement books I've bought at the time.

[Elbows]

With a simple mdf base-board cut to hold circular bases, I don't see why you couldn't simply play whatever you were playing....bases don't matter that much, other than aesthetics and making it a bit easier to pack them in together.

Go nuts.

[Prof.Witchheimer]

yes, I could, and actually it seems to be made already:

http://web.archive.org/web/20060116192700/www.lochagos.com/gallery/mac/epirote_army.html



And I had to take a second look to recognise the bases are round.

[Captain Blood]

I think trays are the way to go Alex. I am so very much with you on the charm of individually based figures. But for big battles, you do need a way of ranking them up...

[Jeff965]

Have a look at these Alex he will do custom bases if he doesn't already carry the ones you want and his prices are very reasonable http://war-bases.co.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=121

[Aventine]

I would like to second Warbases, very nice folk and they make lovely bases.

Keith

[Belgian]

Would also go for warbases, very good service and prices. They are also always willing to do custom bases and projects.

[Mason]

I am sure Jimbibbly could make something custom for you in acrylic, Alex.

The best thing with that is he has varying thicknesses of acrylic to match the bases that you already use.

I will be bothering him for the same when I get around to my SAGA project, as I am hoping to be able to use the same figures in ranked-up regiments for Oldhammer.
 

[LeadAsbestos]

Yep, I went round for my Aztec WAB army, and my Trojans as well. My trays are made by LITKO, great service, great product.

[Elbows]

Litko does good stuff too, but cripes they're expensive.  If you're in the states (which I don't think you are...) I have a buddy who also has a laser cut shop and could be convinced to do some up for cheaper. There are a lot of companies who'll do that stuff for you.  I think 4Ground even does some also.

[aecurtis]

Well, you *can* pay a bunch of money for such bases, and if you're incline to support folks who are trying to make a living making them for you, that's fine.  But you don't have to.

The following is likely to appear in an article sometime in one of the wargaming "glossies" (one which has recently acquired a new editor), but here are the basics.  Adapting the process for other metal bases shapes is a doddle.

First get down to the local sign shop and see if they will sell you offcuts from the magnetic sheet material from which they make magnetic vehicle door signs for advertising.  Mine gives me good-sized offcuts for a pittance.  If they won't, add magnetic sheet to the shopping list and head for the DIY/hardware store. 

At the DIY store, you will be looking for:

- Magnetic sheet, if required.

- Fender washers on which to base your figures.  These are fairly thin galvanized steel; unlike machinist's washers, they tend to have a small central hole compared to their overall radius.  The most useful sized I find are 3/4" (20mm) and 1" (25mm).  They will accommodate most 25-28mm infantry figures to your preference.  For mounted figures, you can play around with larger fender washes (the larger, the more expensive), and these can be used to incorporate command vignettes into "element" bases, too.  Or you can use the rectangular galvanized steel bases (50mm x 25mm, or 2" x 1", or any size you like) which many WABbites have used for years.  And obviously you can infer how the same sort of bases (from companies such as Wargames Accessories, in the US) can serve the same purpose for infantry figures (20mm x 20mm, 25mm x 25mm), if you prefer the traditional route.

- The least expensive 12" square vinyl floor tiles they have.  Yes, they're vinyl. but they're quite stiff.  I have a stash I bought for about fifty cents each; the local Home Depot currently has their cheapest brand name ones for 69 cents, but check in the store for their most basic off-brand.  You're not going to break the bank if you pay a few cents more.  Make sure the tiles are not textured, but have a smooth to surface.  Color doesn't matter; cheapness is goodness here.

Oh, and pick up a good glue to laminate bits of the magnetic sheet to the tile.  Old-fashioned Gorilla Glue will work ***if used SPARINGLY and WITH CARE***!!!  Or a durable contact adhesive will work well.

Now get over to the art (and craft) shop, and look in the scrapbooking section for round scrapbooking punches.  Depending on the brand and size, they may look like a mini paper punch or a demented sort of shears.  They will be the most expensive part of the project, so just get what you need.  If you're going to use 3/4"/20mm fender washers, get a 3/4" punch, and so on.

Go home and make some space on the workbench and plan how you're going to lay out your trays/bases/elements.  You may want to accommodate large (and small) WAB units, as Tony Edwards did with his Epirotes, above.  But you can also make elements for "Dux Bellorum", "Dux Britanniarum", or "Impetus" (or do all three and use the same set of figures between them; I do!) or for any ruleset you prefer.  With my 28mm Colonials for the Sudan, I use this method to mount singly-based figures on double-sized elements for Peter Pig's "Patrols in the Sudan", which is normally played in 15mm.

Once you've decided on element sizes and given some though as to how the figures will be positioned on  them, start laying them out on the vinyl tile squares; I use an indelible pen and a drafting square, with a ruler.   Then using a utility knife with a fresh blade, just "score and snap" the tiles into elements.  Tidy up the edges with a sanding block.

[Elbows]

Yes, you can always go the magnetic rout...but if he's already based his guys - it depends on whether or not he's done them with magnetic metals. 

[aecurtis]

Now take your scrapbooking punch and the magnetic sheet and punch as many circles of magnetic material as you will need to hold your figures in place.  Double-check (!) where you want the figures to go, and glue the magnetic circles down to the top side of the elements.  Clean up excess glue and let dry.  It's not a bad idea to weight and press the assembly to make a good lamination.  When dry, spray a base color over the top, then sand/gravel/paint/flock around the magnetic circles.  It's easier than you might imagine.  A good spray clear acrylic holds everything together and provides a little protection for the base color.

Now stick your steel-based figures onto the elements, and you're ready to play.  If you're doing massed square or rectangular-based figures, or if you're doing massed fender washers as Tony did with his Epirotes, it's much simpler and faster to just cut a single large rectangle of magnetic sheet to accommodate the unit, and stick it onto the tile base.  But plan ahead: figure out the magnetic size first, then cut the tile about 1/4" wider (on each side, so 1/2" overall, to allow an edge to build up basing material and disguise the metal bases.  It'll look different from Tony's, unless you add a built-up edge of stripwood or plastic to "contain" everything.  but that's not necessary, as the magnets hold everything in place, and I think it looks just as good "bare".  The tile alone is thick enough to allow you to pick up or slide the tray/element, without having to get one's greasy, Dorito-stained fingers on the figures!

But you can figure out the variations, or just wait for a future issue of a fine British wargaming mag for details and pictures.  In any case, apart from the cost of the punches (use those 40% or 50% coupons the craft stores mail out!  Again, I do!), the material cost is minimal.  Including basing material (sand, flock, glue, you're looking quite literally as pennies per tray or element.  It's definitely a DIY project, but I can't think of too many gamers of my acquaintances who have to many thumbs to be able to complete it easily and quickly.  A weekend (and only a few hours of it, but accounting for drying time) will leave you set up for an army, or two, or three.    Hope that helps.

Allen

[aecurtis]

Well, he said washers or coins, so he's on the right track, unless his coins are completely non-ferrous.  At least they're not those godawful black placcy plinths...

For those alien to the world of scrapbooking, this is one kind of punch:



And this is t'other:



And if the concept doesn't resonate, then don't bl**dy do it!  It's just a suggestion.  Sheesh.

Allen

[Prof.Witchheimer]

Allen,
Always a pleasure I'm in Germany and mostly using 5 cent euro coins (21,25 mm diameter) For smaller stuff I'm taking the fender washers (these with the central hole) and they're 20mm. Though for some BTD Germans I had to use 30mm washers as they've got some action like poses and don't fit the 5 cents. Btw, the euro coins are containing some steel, that's the core element, otherwise they would be too soft and too expensive, too.
Btw, you've mentioned "rectangular galvanized steel bases", never heard of, are they something only available in the States?
I quite like the idea of self-making bases, I've did something like this about 13 years ago for my rectangular regiments, it was quite easy due to rectangular philosophy.. I took some sort of a very thin metal sheet and glued it on the move tray. Afterwards I've stuck the magnet sheet tiles (20x20mm) to the bottom of the bases.
I will check my DIY store and have a thinking about, thanks for the great guide!
Alex