Preview of Jugula

[Wachaza]

Really nice miniatures and painting but why, oh why 35mm?

[Too Bo Coo]

Really nice miniatures and painting but why, oh why 35mm?

Agreed, propitiatory sucks...

[joroas]

but why, oh why 35mm?

Does it matter?  There are enough 25/28mm ranges out already......

[Too Bo Coo]

Of course it matters.  Proprietary anything is just a way to fleece customers, some more so than others.  While I agree, this is small potatoes, it does leave a bad taste in one's mouth who are familiar with the practice.  What would have been wrong to go for a more standard scale and just make great minis that people want instead of going to an odd scale, being the only source and well, 'why ask if the air is any good is there is nothing else to breathe?'... you know?

I wont be buying any myself....

[Wachaza]

Does it matter?  There are enough 25/28mm ranges out already......

If you already have a gladiator collection, in 28mm and the animals to go with it, then the nice minis here might have been bought if in 28mm scale. In 35mm, especially looking at the disparity with the 28mm in the picture above, I won't buy any. You couldn't even pass them off as "big men" as they're just too large.

They look like Space Marines next to a 28mm.

[Too Bo Coo]

If you already have a gladiator collection, in 28mm and the animals to go with it, then the nice minis here might have been bought if in 28mm scale. In 35mm, especially looking at the disparity with the 28mm in the picture above, I won't buy any. You couldn't even pass them off as "big men" as they're just too large.

They look like Space Marines next to a 28mm.

I hear you, but one can never have more toys in the same scale.  Let me put it this way, I have 28mm and 20mm zombie collections.  The ONLY reason is so I can use my Hot Wheels cars which are for all intents and purposes, proprietary.  There is just no need to double up, unless you have this type of special issue.  I'll certainty never do it again with scales so close together.  As to size diff's, maybe get away with one model that way.  My viking leader for SAGA is a HUGE foundry model, but two of them of that size would look silly...IMHO.  That great thing about our collective hobby, you can do whatever you please so your mileage may vary!

Cheers Mate!

[Wachaza]

Different sizes doesn't bother me as long as they're within human variation. Short and tall makes a unit look more real. I've no problem mixing manufacturers. Those 35mm are Ogres though.

[joroas]

What I meant was, there are other figures you COULD buy, you don't have to buy theirs.....

GW did similar things with Inquisitor.

I am wondering why they produce figures for a niche market?

[Mad Doc Morris]

I am wondering why they produce figures for a niche market?

Like said, they're probably aiming at the 'larger scale' market, re-opened by the recent success of Arena Rex (here's a LINK). AR produces miniatures in true collector's quality, almost a case of anatomic studies in miniature. Therefore the somewhat larger scale was both a quality choice as well as a marketing decision. As a result, though, their models are… pricey.
GB might try to jump in here, providing affordable 'substitutes' for fans of the AR game or just generally riding the waves (the game was designed with 28mm models in mind, the bigger models deemed 'visually more appealing' obviously). Given the slight to outright fantasy appearance of those GB models, there are several possible crossovers.

Also, conspiracy theories aside, wasn't there a Battle Honours 40mm range depicting gladiators in fantasy gear? Perhaps that's a role model, too.

[Too Bo Coo]

I dont think proprietary products is a 'conspiracy theory' in any context of the term.

One of the main reasons why I stay away from things bigger than 28mm is simple. I'm not a great painter.  Sure, I can do some tricks to make 28mm or 20mm look good enough, but all of that would fall away in bigger scales.  Painting a giant is a tough prospect because I want to paint it to a showroom quality and will try very hard to get there, even if I cant quite get there.  I personally wouldnt be happy with the results on more expensive models and would rather spend that time needed to 'ramp up' just working on the projects I have and enjoy.

And if there are only one, two or even three outfits casting in a particular scale...why would I 'switch', need dual terrain, mats, pieces, etc just to accommodate a bigger scale when there is no real reason to do so.  I betcha that this game will play just as well with 28's!

[Elbows]

When I see stuff in a fairly proprietary scale I just feel bad for the manufacturer.  They're intentionally removing themselves from some well established markets.  If these were 28's (and more historically suitable) I'd have definitely looked at picking some up...to go with my Foundry/Brigade games minis etc.

I'm sure some of the guys doing 40mm gladiators are eyeing them, but they might be a little too small.  As many Ludii as we have going here on the forum, almost all of us would have been potential customers for a new line of gladiators.  The company choosing to play by themselves in the corner of the sandbox is killing their own business plan.  Personally I think it's silly. Purely my opinion.  I don't doubt they put a lot of thought into why they wanted to go solo on their scale.

[Mad Doc Morris]

I dont think proprietary products is a 'conspiracy theory' in any context of the term.

Okay, light-hearted comment explained: 'conspiracy theory' is aimed at my own story of events I've come up with above. I've taken a guess there, but in this hobby business what appears to be a deliberate move turns out, after second glance, as pure coincidence quite often.
However, no offence to anyone's more serious considerations.

Speaking of which, perhaps the guys at GB just thought that there are enough 28mm ranges to choose from. Added to that, the amount of models required for a gladiator game is fairly limited – of course, collectors might disagree! – so you won't sell shedloads anyway, especially if people already have their favourites from other manufacturers. Changing scale could well do the trick in sales then.

In the end, nobody's bound to play the game with 'official' models – despite GB successfully established that with some SAGA fans in my area (former GW crowd, obviously ). Thus if the game's any good, I'll give it a look. Just curious how it competes with "Blood on the Sands".

[Furt]

In the end, nobody's bound to play the game with 'official' models – despite GB successfully established that with some SAGA fans in my area (former GW crowd, obviously ). Thus if the game's any good, I'll give it a look. Just curious how it competes with "Blood on the Sands".

From what I have heard Jugula uses a diceless system and concentrates more on the "ludus running" campaign than the actual combats. Which, although I find a little strange in a gladiator game, I can understand the appeal of. As for being Diceless, I could barely tolerate that, this is a "wargame" after all right?

Blood on the Sands concentrates on simulating a gladiatorial combat first and foremost, with a campaign system to tie all the matches together.

I think there is more than enough room for multiple sets of gladiator rules.

As for the miniatures, I think they are nice enough, a little too free historically, but in any case would not buy them because of their scale. They could serve as "ogre" sized gladiators in a fantasy arena.

[Too Bo Coo]

From what I have heard Jugula uses a diceless system and concentrates more on the "ludus running" campaign than the actual combats. Which, although I find a little strange in a gladiator game, I can understand the appeal of. As for being Diceless, I could barely tolerate that, this is a "wargame" after all right?

Blood on the Sands concentrates on simulating a gladiatorial combat first and foremost, with a campaign system to tie all the matches together.

I think there is more than enough room for multiple sets of gladiator rules.

As for the miniatures, I think they are nice enough, a little too free historically, but in any case would not buy them because of their scale. They could serve as "ogre" sized gladiators in a fantasy arena.

I think that there is some irony that SAGA and BoTS generally share a very interesting mechanic, and yet in some ways like Furt wrote, their gladiator game could not be more different.  I was not very impressed with completely card driven mechanics.  That's why I turned my nose up at Outrider initially, which was of course a mistake.... Who knows, this may be a great game, but the focus being on the Ludus, it sounds in some ways closer to Spartacus.  That may not be a bad thing....  I'll wait and see what others have to say, but I really cant justify trying a new scale, especially one so close.

[Ray Earle]

Well as the figures are multi-part I assume it should be possible to combine elements from each set to create each historically correct class of gladiator.

As I wouldn't be looking to create an army of them they'd work perfectly as show pieces. Pretty much along the same lines of the guys using 40mm in the BoTS thread.