Screw gun components?

[Dr Mathias]

Hello,
I'm trying to find a picture or diagram of a screw gun's component parts. I'm wanting to model one disassembled and I'd like to know what the interlocking parts of the barrel look like separated. Also, if the carriage body is broken down.

The gun in question is the Foundry Northwest Frontier mountain gun manned by Indian artillerists.

Thanks!

[OSHIROmodels]

I think I might be able to help you there.

I bought it (and lots of other toys  ) not so long ago and haven't really done anything with it. I'll sort you out a picture later 

cheers

James

[Dr Mathias]

I don't think I was clear

I want to model a 2.5 RML screw gun disassembled and carried by porters- I can't imagine anyone makes a disassembled one. So I'm press molding a barrel and cutting it in two. I was mainly wondering what the 'screw part' looks like, I intially assumed the barrel was threaded into the breech, but I'm not sure now. There's two large connecting screws on each side that suggest the two parts (barrel and breech) are pinned together with the screws.

This is an interesting site:

http://www.limbergunners.ca/html/body_history_of_the_screw_gun.html

I'm having a hard time imagining how people packed these things around Africa without mules. According to the above site, the assembled gun is about 800 lbs.!!! Broken across five mules:

Barrel: ~200 lbs
Breech: ~200 lbs
Wheels: ~70 lbs (from a pic in another thread Plynykes provided)
Carriage: ~160 lbs (guess)
Axle, elevating gear, chains, ramrod, etc: ~100 lbs (guess)

I assume a single guy couldn't carry a 200 lb hunk of metal by himself, but maybe I'm wrong. I suspect the barrel sections and the carriage were carried by two guys, maybe slung between them or something. For simplicity's sake I may just model single porters carrying each part, but I'd love to know the real story behind man-packed artillery.

I was certain I read an account of a Sikh carrying a gun up a hill by himself, but I'll be damned if I can find it anywhere.

[Cubs]

The idea of the gun was that it would be transported by mules or ponies in terrain that wheeled vehicles could not reach. The men would not normally be expected to carry it any distance, although they would be trained to unload/load it quickly to get over obstacles, through narrow passes, etc..

Found this pic, which shows it being assembled -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:RML2.5inchMountaunGunAssembling1895.jpg

- and the Wiki entry does confirm 800lbs total -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RML_2.5_inch_Mountain_Gun

Hard to tell of course, but the barrel/breach don't look too heavy or awkward to lift, especially a trained team. 200lbs is only about the weight of a slightly heavier than average man and it's an evenly balanced load of course. I feel sorry for the crew member who had to be tied to the wheel and rolled along.

[Cubs]

This diagram isn't the clearest, but it seems that the barrel screwed onto a thread on the breach.

http://riv.co.nz/rnza/hist/gun/rifled10.htm

[Dr Mathias]

Thanks cubs, that last diagram is what I was wondering about, regarding how the barrels fit together.

[smirnoff]

Any use?
http://www.kipling.org.uk/rg_screwguns1.htm

[Plynkes]

The men would not normally be expected to carry it any distance...

The pic in question was from tropical Africa, where the men were expected to carry it long distances in areas where the Tsetse fly (amongst other things) would kill your transport animals faster than you could replace them. If you look at the list of awards the WAFF earned in East Africa, there is a Nigerian fellow awarded the Distinguished Conduct Medal whose rank is listed as "Gun Carrier."*

Also the wheel in that picture is from the QF 2.95" Mountain Gun used by the WAFF, which isn't the same gun that Dr. Matt is asking for info about. It is actually heavier. 







*He got his medal for helping to serve the gun when most of the gunners had been taken out, and then when the Germans put the gun out of action he picked up a fallen gunner's rifle and carried on with that - not bad for a man who was only trained to carry stuff about on his head. 

[Hobbit]

I think that somewhwere I've an account of them being disassembled and manhandled under fire whilst on the NWF. I'll see if I can dig that out but it may take a couple of days.

[OSHIROmodels]

I don't think I was clear

My mistake, but I think you're sorted now, yes?

cheers

James

[Dr Mathias]

My mistake, but I think you're sorted now, yes?

cheers

James

Yes, on the original query thanks!

Now I'm on to figuring out the porter situation. Since the lowly porters and supernumeraries are hardly ever documented I may be out of luck on this stage.

[S J Donovan]

Actually, there is one made by Reverisco at

http://tin-soldier.com/mtgun.html

it comes with mules and handlers.

[Plynkes]

Actually, there is one made by Reverisco at

http://tin-soldier.com/mtgun.html

it comes with mules and handlers.

That's the 2.95" QF. The gun from the photo of the guy with the wheel on his head, that saw action in the Great War in Cameroon and German East Africa. Again, this is not the gun that Dr. Matthias is interested in. He's talking about the RML 2.5" Mountain Gun.

I'm guessing he wants it for his 1890s British Central Africa project since he mentions porters rather than mules. However, Harry Johnson specifically refers to the gun used in BCA as a 7pdr mountain gun. Which would be this...



...the predecessor of the 2.5" (that's assuming that he knew his guns). One of these was actually abandoned to the enemy Yao in the bush, but later recaptured. As these engagements were fought along or not far from the shores of the lake, the main method of transporting the gun for long distances appears to have been steamer and boat. The descriptions of the early engagements (i.e. in 1891) talk of a single gun, but in the later ones multiple pieces are mentioned.

In a later engagement "a strong force of artillery" commanded by Royal Navy officers is mentioned, these may have come from the gun boats, or they may have just been the mountain guns. Can't find any mention of exact types, but it seems they were muzzle-loaders of some sort.

In Lugard's time (before the protectorate) mention is also made by Chris Peers of a 7pdr breech-loader being present. Not sure if this is right, or if it is a mistaken reference to the 7pdr RML moutain gun mentioned above. Lugard had this gun before any Sikhs were on the scene, and illustrations show it being manned by non-uniformed Africans under the supervision of a white officer. The gun in the picture however looks a bit big for a mountain gun. Make of that what you will, it is a drawing not a photo.

[Dr Mathias]

Another interesting picture I've not seen before.

I've got two packs of that Reviresco mule train, that will do in a pinch for a packed gun even though the carriage and barrel are distinctly different. When it comes to my gaming group I'm the only person that cares about that level of specificity

Thanks again all, as always you're very informative.

[Plynkes]

That's a generic pic of the 7pdr pinched from Wikipedia. It isn't actually an example from Harry Johnson's mob. But I think it is possibly the type of gun they had, and it looks quite similar to the one in the Foundry DA range, don't you think?