Who Started WW1?

[dm]

That is the best account of the 'Great' War i have ever read

[AlyMorrison]

I dare someone to do a demo game

[FramFramson]

Thread over, we can all go home now.

[former user]

not gonna oppinionate about that...
I am however missing the perspective of historian Niall Ferguson
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niall_Ferguson#World_War_I

who apparently does not offer a "simplistic"  explanation which follows the "whodunnit"  narrative concept, like :
who was responsible?
who could have stopped the madness happen?

but attempts to put it in context...

for a more intuitive approach, I recommend the much ignored german movie
"the white ribbon"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Das_wei%C3%9Fe_Band

that puts a mirror in front of "german mentality", at least the one before WW1.
I cannot judge if other nations can induce something about their "own menatility" from it, or if the film simply says something about human nature in general....

apart from that, I very much favour the contrafactual approach, which explores alternative outcomes and in this way offers interesting (and very entertaining) perspectives into chosen foci (I hope this is the correct plural in english) of history.

I believe that, in a way, this is what historical wargamers actually do too?

[Cubs]

Interesting that Niall Fergusson's write-up on Wiki says - "He is known for his provocative, contrarian views."

Reading a summary of his theories, I'd say this is an understatement.

If we accept his stuff as valid, then to the list of whether you blame -

1) Who threw the first punch.

2) Who chose not to stop the scrap, but instead got involved.

3) Who was being annoying enough to give someone an excuse to throw the first punch.

.. we then have to add -

4) Who didn't actually explain to everyone beforehand that throwing a punch results in a fight and tell them how they might react if that were the case.


He sounds a bit contrived on first viewing and a bit like one of those historians who realise they're not going to sell books by going over old ground, so they make stuff up instead to get their books more attention.

But like you say, if you're going to collect opinions it's not unhelpful to have some extremes at either end of the spectrum too. You don't have to agree, but it's good to know about them all the same.

[Plynkes]

chosen foci (I hope this is the correct plural in english)

It is correct, but I would hazard that the equally-correct anglicised alternative "focuses" is much more commonly used. I don't think I have ever heard the word "foci" spoken out loud. 




Mod Hat: With the introduction of the undeniably contentious Ferguson I sense the possibilty of heated disagreement approaching, and Driscoles' uncanny prediction coming true. So fair warning: everybody make sure they play nice, please. I shall say this only once.

[former user]

With the introduction of the undeniably contentious Ferguson

Yes, please consider this as an offer for expanding perspectives, not to copy controversies.
I have problems with discussing such complex issues in a wargaming forum. 
I sympathize with the pub brawl model though.   
Plus, I consider myself not knowledgable enough for the luxury of an oppinion (in this matter) and I personally reject simplistic explanations.
I cannot offer a founded oppinion to that matter, only sources, sorry.

But I shall listen with interest

[marianas_gamer]

The bar fight metaphor has been enthusiastically received on my facebook page.  Here are some additional suggestions:
- Arabia hits Turkey with Britain's help; gets arrested and locked up in Britain and France's basement
- Japan swipes Germany's pocket change when no one is watching and New Zealand helps
- Ireland sees whats going on and says its going to just sit in its own corner and drink it's beer. About halfway through the fight, Ireland gets up and walks up behind Britain's back and takes a swing, just knocking Britain's hat off. Britain stiff arms Ireland and says sternly "we will talk about this later". Ireland goes back to drinking its beer
- Finally, with apologies to Barbara Tuchman it is suggested this be titled "The Drunks of August"

[armchairgeneral]

If we are blaming Germany/Austria Hungary for starting the war, I would argue that that they couldn't have foreseen the nature and form the war would take and it's duration.

After all, the Franco-Prussian War was a relatively quick affair with an overwhelming victory for Germany so they would naturally expect that the next conflict to be similar and go their way.

[Michi]

Now THAT should replace Blackadder for use in schools to explain WW1.

No sir, I concur. Blackadder is not to be replaced by any means. I never witnessed a more accurate display of what the Great War was. Although that bar brawl story is rather well researched and perfectly told. Now, actually I think the one is not excluding the other. Well. Blackadder shall still teach the lessons history tells us.

[joroas]

Now THAT should replace Blackadder for use in schools to explain WW1.


No sir, I concur. Blackadder is not to be replaced by any means. I never witnessed a more accurate display of what the Great War was. Although that bar brawl story is rather well researched and perfectly told. Now, actually I think the one is not excluding the other. Well. Blackadder shall still teach the lessons history tells us.

As a history teacher I used the last episode with all my groups, however, there is now pressure to ban it in schools!

[Michi]

As a history teacher I used the last episode with all my groups, however, there is now pressure to ban it in schools!

As we say in Germany: "The prophet isn´t listened to in his own country."

[Cubs]

If we are blaming Germany/Austria Hungary for starting the war, I would argue that that they couldn't have foreseen the nature and form the war would take and it's duration.

After all, the Franco-Prussian War was a relatively quick affair with an overwhelming victory for Germany so they would naturally expect that the next conflict to be similar and go their way.

And I think there's the rub. All the alliances people made to prevent war came to naught when someone rather foolishly ignored them and then looked surprised when they realised they'd started a war against the rest of Europe!

[Beast of Bukhara]

 

-  "The Drunks of August"

The bar fight metaphor is a fine a summary as I have ever herd  for the answer to this long standing question of who ?

However Cluedo wise I am going for Austria Hungary with the lead pipe in the bar ?

As to why ……..?

When will the envelope with the answer be opened please ?

[Michi]

As we say in Germany: "The prophet isn´t listened to in his own country."

Just wanted to say that, sorry...