You can do better than that, Sarissa?

[Argonor]

If this:

http://www.sarissa-precision.co.uk/store/darkages/files/113_IMG_9367.jpg

is supposed to represent something like this (which I suppose):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mead_hall

I would strongly suggest a re-design....  

At least I have never seen any reconstructed viking building with those 'gothic cathedral' style buttresses...

This, on the other hand, looks more like something I have seen done, although the very straight lines present in laser-cut models still look a bit odd:

http://www.sarissa-precision.co.uk/store/darkages/files/114_IMG_9369.jpg

[Gibby]

Although very cost effective, I can't help but feel that a lot of these laser cut terrain pieces lack character and charm. For some periods, such as the Old West, they are great, but for most others I don't think the... flatness... of them does it for me.

[Mitch K]

Given that an MDF building kit is goint to be flat, I don't find the Sarissa structures too remote from this

or this


Viking architechture is so variable, in structure, materials and methods I would not care to be too didactic about models. People who are time poor or lacking the skills of some of the terrain builders here are glad of what Sarissa et al will allow them to put on the table.

[Argonor]

The latter pic (sketch) is close to the mead hall I linked to above, but look how far those 'buttresses' on the first Sarissa model reach out from the footprint of the building, compared to both the sketch and the mead hall. Completely ridiculous.

And, yes, I think it is only fair to expect from professional model makers that the models they present bear a close resemblance to what archaeologists and other experts have reconstructed.

For example, while most of a structure can be made by laser-cutting mdf, why not offer dowels cut to the right size/shape/length for pieces like the wall supports? Would make the model a bit more complicated to construct, and maybe a tiny bit more expensive, but, oh the difference!

[Mitch K]

At the end of the day, there are very few pieces of archaeology to base these on. We can speculate based on these,but we cannot state with certainty that these are totally representative, more especially given what we do know about the variety of construction styles.

Anyway, on a building with carved gables, who's to say the butresses were not squared timbers, for additional bling factor?!

[Argonor]

Anyway, on a building with carved gables, who's to say the butresses were not squared timbers, for additional bling factor?!

Excavations do. That's why the reconstructions have the round ones. Many excavated buildings are relatively large  halls, probably because they were made of the best materials, and if Hersir, Jarls, and Kings didn't bother to get their roof/wall supports carved, the extra labor required would probably not be worth it for commoners, either.

I don't buy the notion that because we haven't found millions of viking houses, you can just make a model up and then call it a 'dark age viking hall/house/whatever'.

The (first) model is ugly and very improbable.

If you, and others, are happy to populate your gaming tables with stuff like that, by all means, do so. I won't. I'll be scratchbuilding rather than buying that one, and I really loathe doing so.

[Mason]

Although very cost effective, I can't help but feel that a lot of these laser cut terrain pieces lack character and charm. For some periods, such as the Old West, they are great, but for most others I don't think the... flatness... of them does it for me.

I am with Gibby on this: MDF, straight from the kit, is only really suitable for the Old West.

I would consider an MDF kit for any other period as an armature to build your scenery on, almost like the foam board/core coming in a packet and just add water.
Use it as a basis and be prepared to put the work in and I am sure that they would work fine.

I do agree that, as they are, they look like a poor option in comparison to a decent scratchbuild.
I can see why some people love them, though, and not knocking anyone who does.

Horses for courses and all that...

[Mitch K]

Excavations do. That's why the reconstructions have the round ones. Many excavated buildings are relatively large  halls, probably because they were made of the best materials, and if Hersir, Jarls, and Kings didn't bother to get their roof/wall supports carved, the extra labor required would probably not be worth it for commoners, either.

Most or all of this archaeological evidence is in the form of "postholes" appearing as stains in the ground, or at the very best a remnant of a part-rotted timber. We very largely infer significant details like how the roof was constructed, because we simply don't have a roof to derive from.

I don't buy the notion that because we haven't found millions of viking houses, you can just make a model up and then call it a 'dark age viking hall/house/whatever'.

The (first) model is ugly and very improbable.

If you, and others, are happy to populate your gaming tables with stuff like that, by all means, do so. I won't. I'll be scratchbuilding rather than buying that one, and I really loathe doing so.

I think, with respect, you're missing the point. I have the time to build bits of terrain, to do the research and scratch around for the "best" materials and methods. Better still, I have the enthusiasm to do so. On top of this I have either:
a) enough skill to make something that works; or
b) enough nerve to pretend I have and busk it.

To someone without the time, the interest in doing the building and enough skills/nerve, then the kits are a lot better than nothing. Are they perfect? No, far from it. Are they the equal of a decent scratchbuild?  No. Do people get a lot of value and fun out of them despite this? Yes.

At the end of the day, it's a hobby. If I found it painful/loathed it, I would ask myself whether I was doing it right.

[Argonor]

And I think you're completely missing my point, namely that I think that particular model is both very ugly, and of a very improbable design. Whether or not someone else wants to buy it and play with it is completely insignificant.

I am expressing my opinion on a - in my eyes - flawed model, not telling others what to buy or do with their time.

You also seem to be missing the point, that the supports on the reconstructed buildings are placed much closer to the walls, because that's where the postholes are found.

And that reconstructions - not anywhere close to said model - are founded on a lot of research and experimental archaeology.

And my remark on scratchbuilding was not to imply that I don't like my hobby, I just don't like building stuff - I find it boring and too time-consuming. Takes too much time away from painting and gaming. Whether or not you build your own stuff, and like to do so, and how you go about it, has absolutly nothing to do with this discussion.

The point is, that when I want to buy a model, I want it to be recognizable as what it's intended to represent, not to be some distorted image because it's easier to design it that way.

If I want fantasy buildings, I'll shop for that, and accept all kinds off oddities. If I want historical buildings, I'll buy some that fits with the commonly accepted view of those.

When I was scrolling down the page, noticed the entry, I thought 'Cool, finally somebody making viking buildings', then, after clicking the thumbnail, I thought 'What the heck is THAT supposed to be???'.

I don't understand why you are that set on defending a design that are so far from what scholars think was the common appearance of viking houses (and I can tell you that the type with postholes are known from all over Denmark, according to our National Museum). And I haven't even mentioned the 'windows', yet.

I'm not going to waste more time on this; I have made my point, and it really feels like you're just arguing this for the argument's sake.

[Elbows]

While I love MDF kits for many things, the entire Dark Age line from Sarissa was their weakest entry by far.  So I agree with both sides of the argument.  MDF is great for people who are lazy or don't have time (me), but the Viking stuff is pretty crap.

Then again it all sits under the shadow of this fine effort by the 4Ground fellas...



 

[Gibby]

I am desperate to own that Saga Great Hall, but it still isn't for sale!

[Sterling Moose]

I am desperate to own that Saga Great Hall, but it still isn't for sale!

It's not?  The one they had at Salute last year had a price tag of around 200 quid.

[Gibby]

It's not?  The one they had at Salute last year had a price tag of around 200 quid.

I can't find it on their website in any case!

[katie]

Actually, one of the reconstructions at West Stow originally had square-beam buttresses like this; although only on the ends of the building;

http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4007/4518579579_260c81bb22_z.jpg

Last time I was there, they'd added a roof to that section and appeared to be drying timber under it.

[Vonkluge]

I am desperate to own that Saga Great Hall, but it still isn't for sale!

I talked to 4 ground/gripping beast (via email) about the great hall and was told they are waiting on some scenarios for the rule book that will be included with it.... Will see

While I like the 4 ground great hall for 200 pounds I will probably build one as I have tools, materials, and some skill.