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Author Topic: Never ending discussion ... rules, what should they look like!?  (Read 1580 times)

Offline darquebus

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(All of the stuff below this is of course my personal opinion)
I have played, Legends of the old West, LotR, Warhamster, WH hysterical, Bolt Action, Flames of War, IHMN, Flying lead, Drums and Shakos, 45. adv, DBA, the list goes on and on...
Everything is advertised as realistic, ultra-fast, no book-keeping, great mechanics ...and I always believe that!  o_o
but always I found something was not quite right. So here comes the question(s)...
I have to run another convention game and would need to design rules for that again, so therefore I am curious what you guys think, what needs to be in, what is unnecessary?

1. How important is it to have different individual shooting/fighting skill levels. Most of the games assign a skill level to the figures but some try a different approach, e.g FoW uses the opponents skill level to hit, LotR only uses just a opposed D6-role no matter who fights... So what should be used to determine the outcome of a fight/shot? Is it the skill of the commander, the weather....? What is it?

2. Rules need to be simple and self contained. Very often rules are advertised as easy but the actual complexity is uploaded into individual talents that are then allocated to the figures. So the complexity is just disguised and it requires annoying referencing as no one can remember all the individual special rules. So what has to be in the stat line to make it interesting but not too complex?

3. The action is on the table not in a book. I don't like rules that require constant table referencing. Shoot a soldier with a pistol who wears a helmet... look up pistol range table and cross reference with the armor table and troop skill table...the roll on the tabletop should immediately tell me if it was a success or not (opposed roles seem to be the solution here?)

4. Cards on the table look bad between nicely built terrain...(playing cards to determine the initiative, counters to show the current mood of the trooper etc) The Bolt Action solution seems ok (small and informative) but some just turn figures round or place on the side to show effects...

5. The difference between big and skirmish level games seems to be an issue, or is it? Would it be possible to have something that covers both. Some system try to do this by classifying figures as "heroes and troopers", and use summary skills for the groups.

6. The warhammer approach is  :-[ , I have to sit and wait for half an hour until my opponent has moved all his troops ... A system needs an action/reaction mechanism. Move shoot, next move and shoot also seems to be strange too, why not have a more flexible approach, actions that can be done in any order and will trigger an opponents response...? I wanna shoot first and ask questions later (well maybe shoot and then move, you know what I mean)

I have designed my own simple rules for conventions/demo games but still look for something out of the box.


So anybody any idea what system would do all of this? Or maybe comes close...
And if not what are the most important aspects

oh I forgot...no separate rules for tanks...so if a pistol is shot a a tank it should not do anything without referencing to special rules (as point 2. above, no special rules uploaded into the weapons stat line...)

« Last Edit: March 18, 2014, 05:21:35 AM by darquebus »
Ex-Kieler in Down Under

Offline magokiron

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Re: Never ending discussion ... rules, what should they look like!?
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2014, 04:06:07 AM »
In my opinion, PULP ALLEY suits most of your criteria.

PA are the rules we use most now, they are easy to grasp, play really well, fast, fun, and you can use them pretty much for any setting, from fantasy to post apocaliptic, scifi, or as the name suggest, for PULP.

PLUS, there is a FREE download ruleset with the basic mechanics, so you can see if the system suits you before buying the COMPLETE rulebook.

http://www.wargamevault.com/browse.php?manufacturers_id=5628&filters=0_0_0_0

Best wishes.
I know you're too old to play with toy soldiers. So give them to me... NOW!

Offline Conquistador

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Re: Never ending discussion ... rules, what should they look like!?
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2014, 03:54:49 PM »
Two Hour War Games rules have some neat mechanics but if you are an experienced war gamer with traditional techniques you will probably get trashed unless you read the rules section by section using the "Stop!" boxes in the newer sets and play out the mechanics presented first.  This is not Jack Scruby's war game!   

Gracias,

Glenn
Viva Alta California!  Las guerras de España,  Las guerras de las Américas,  Las guerras para la Libertad!

Offline Conquistador

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Re: Never ending discussion ... rules, what should they look like!?
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2014, 04:05:21 PM »
<snip>

For more on THW visit http://store.twohourwargames.com/index.html or http://2hourblog.blogspot.com/ or even http://site.twohourwargames.com/forum/index.php for more information.

1. How important is it to have different individual shooting/fighting skill levels. <snip>  Two Hour Wargames (THW) uses (originally) one stat "Rep" for results but the newer games taking on more sophisticated situations have (3 or 4 at most IIRC) stats like "savvy" for interactions.

2. Rules need to be simple and self contained. Again, look at THW games for ideas.

3. The action is on the table not in a book.THW does use some charts (lots there but only a handful needed in most non-campaign settings.)

4. Cards on the table look bad between nicely built terrain...(playing cards to determine the initiative, counters to show the current mood of the trooper etc) The Bolt Action solution seems ok (small and informative) but some just turn figures round or place on the side to show effects... tokens can be as obtrusive or unobtrusive as you want IMO.

5. The difference between big and skirmish level games seems to be an issue, or is it? Would it be possible to have something that covers both. I think individual reactions are significantly different than group reactions myself.  YMMV but what works for me at one level has problems at other levels.

6. The warhammer approach <snip>Ask Ed the THW guy about how the reaction system works or ask on the forum.


I have designed my own simple rules for conventions/demo games but still look for something out of the box.


<snip>

Gracias,  

Glenn

Offline darquebus

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Re: Never ending discussion ... rules, what should they look like!?
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2014, 12:41:09 AM »
Thanks for the replies...
will give the ones mentioned above a try!

 

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