Army Painter - advice needed

[Sardoo]

I'm considering buying a tin of Army Painter's Quick Shade. Given it's quite expensive I'd be grateful to get some advice from folk who've used the stuff before.

I tend to paint single figures with the odd diorama thrown in featuring four or five figs so, what I need to know is -

Is Quick Shade more for folk who paint regiments of figs at a time?

How easy is it to use?

Which of the three shades is best - that question might rank beside "How long is a piece of string?"

Thanks in advance for any help or advice you can give.

[purbrookmodels]

Hi there,

I prefer to use their 'washes' version, you can be more specific with where you apply each shade and you can put a lighter shade on flesh etc

Good luck!

[carlos13th]

Quick shade is more meant for people wanting to paint large regiments up quickly. The idea is you paint block colours maybe some highlights then paint on or dip the quick shade and it helps define the model adding shadow etc. Then you need to hit it with a matt varnish to take the shine away.

I know people who use tudor miniwax to get the same effect.

I have the Army painter dark tone dip and have used it on some mantic elves. I could see myself using it more if I wanted to paint up a large army quickly but I would rather do washes and painting myself than use it for anything else.

Here is what I achived by just painting block colours where I wanted them with no highlights then painting on the quickshade. I then wiped the quick shade from raised surfaces where I could.



They are a little frosted due to the varnish clouding but it gives a decent idea of how it works. Its certainly a time saver. But the effect isn't usually as good as painting it yourself.

Miniwax is about half the price of Army Painter dip and seems to work the same way, might be a better way to try it.

[Cherno]

I have used QS a lot in the past (brush-on method), but eventually stopped using it for the following reasons:

1. It is very messy to work with and kills your brushes (I had brush bristles sticking to my miniatures occasionally, embedded in the thick coating)
2. It gives a very thick glossy coat
3. One can is too much even for larger projects, the lid won't seal properly once it has been opened (residue sticks to it), and eventually if it is left standing a long time without a good seal the alcoholic(?) content will evaporate, requiring refilling with solvent or whatever
4. You can't drybrush over it which I feel is a major shortcoming. The finish is far too smooth and your paint will just smear over the miniature's surface after QS is applied. You have to drybrush before QuickShading, in fact the QuickShade application has to be the very last step of painting your miniature, you can't paint any details, correct mistakes or anything afterwards.
5. I takes approx. one day to dry completely

I have switched to normal GW washes (Devlan Mud or whatever it's called now) completely. It "lacks" the built-in protective high-gloss finish but is far easier to work with, can easily be applied in small areas, and most importantly, at any step in the painting process.

That being said, I didn't paint a large uniform army with QS so if you really only care about quick resutls with as little steps as possible, I guess QuickShade can be used true to it's name.

Edit: As for which shade is the best, the official QS product page has a guide to using them (basically light = light flesh, medium = everything, dark = dark flesh & metal.

[Cubs]

3. One can is too much even for larger projects, the lid won't seal properly once it has been opened (residue sticks to it), and eventually if it is left standing a long time without a good seal the alcoholic(?) content will evaporate, requiring refilling with solvent or whatever

I've heard that storing the can upside-down solves this (actually this works for tins of household paint and varnish too). Having said that, I'm not sure I'd sleep at night worrying over the seal of the lid.

I've tried the AP Quick Shad and gave the rest of the can away after ruining one tester model. Everything Cherno said I concur with.

I sometimes use inks (actually AP do the whole range in water-based inks/washes if you want to dabble without the mess) to get a similar effect if I'm painting lots of small scale stuff, without all the drawbacks.

[fastolfrus]

Humbrol ink mixed in with a small pot of satin varnish works for me - still kills brushes quickly though, so for that I use the "get artist brushes 10 for £1.99" types.
You need to be very selective - some of the cheapo brushes start to moult bristles even before you apply paint :~}

[Cherno]

I've heard that storing the can upside-down solves this (actually this works for tins of household paint and varnish too). Having said that, I'm not sure I'd sleep at night worrying over the seal of the lid.

I've tried the AP Quick Shad and gave the rest of the can away after ruining one tester model. Everything Cherno said I concur with.

I sometimes use inks (actually AP do the whole range in water-based inks/washes if you want to dabble without the mess) to get a similar effect if I'm painting lots of small scale stuff, without all the drawbacks.

Yes, the lack of sealing is not a biggie, in fact I didn't personally experience the evaporation issuebut I read a TMP thread of a user who had to refill. Still, it bugged me that I periodically had to scratch away the residue around the lid and can top with a screwdriver.

[Sardoo]

Thanks, folks, I think Quick Shade just dropped off the shopping list!

[grant]

Thanks, folks, I think Quick Shade just dropped off the shopping list!

Not a bad decision. I used about half a can of the mid one doing a massive Skaven army once. The rest of the can got tossed for lid sealing issues - the top of the AP inside formed a weird skin too. Tossed it.

I preferred the dark version for my Naps, my second try with it, and went through 1.5 cans. I actually used a whole can this time. I had mixed success with the AP matte spray varnish, but Dullkote worked great over it.

Now I only use the acrylic versions.

[maxxon]

I recommed trying the Vallejo washes available in big pots.

They're acrylic based, so you there's no solvents to worry about and you can clean with water.
They are thicker than e.g. GW washes, so there's less issue with the entire wash flowing to the figure's feet.
They dry somewhat slower than regular acrylics, but once dry they can be painted on normally.
Their finish is very matte, but they are NOT a varnish.
They can be mixed with each other and other acrylics/inks.

Here's a few orcs I did with Vallejo sepia shade:


IMHO, the trick with dipping is not actually dipping. It pays to understand which colors can be shaded with which wash and applying the correct wash to the correct parts. E.g. above I did not shade the metallic parts with sepia. The rest of the palette is intentionally "earthy" to be shadeable with sepia -- this is important, plan ahead when selecting your colors if you intend to "dip".

Sepia works with earth colors, browns, reds, greens even yellow if you're not looking for bright finish.
Light gray works with white.
Black works with metallics, gray and blue.
Don't shade black parts unless you want them to look dirty.
Some colors don't work at all with the three basic shades. E.g. black wash is too dark for light gray but nothing else fits straight on either.

[Bugsda]

If you wipe the tin lid and inside lip after you use it it'll be alright, it lasts longer when stored upside down.

If you dilute the strong tone with an enamal gloss varnish and thin with white spirit it's a much more subtle effect.

[yorkie]

Hi there,

Just to throw a spanner in the works, I have to disagree. I have painted loads of figures and have used AP dip. The comments about not being able to paint over the dip once dry? I do it all the time.



Heres Harald Hardradda, that I did a while ago for SAGA. I started with a black undercoat, then block painted the colours. Then followed the Dip. (note that I brush on the dip). Once dry I then go over the areas that I think need to stand out a bit more, normally just with the original base colour, but sometines highlighting further. Once im happy the whole model gets a coat of matt varnish.

I wouldnt dismiss it, especially if you have a large army to get done.

Anyway, just my 2p

Steve

[carlos13th]

Always good to have multiple views on the same subject. I thought what was said is you cant drybrush over it not that you cant paint over it. Do you drybrush over it often?

[Major_Gilbear]

A few thoughts reading through the thread:

1) If you aren't too fussy about achieving a high-level paintjob, or you simply have too much to paint, dips like AP can be very helpful. High-level paintjobs can be achieved with AP, but that's not really its intended purpose - tabletop or gaming quality paintjobs are.

2) You can paint over AP afterwards; just seal the model with some matte varnish first, then the paint will stick nicely even if you drybrush (the varnish gives the surface some "tooth" back). Just make sure you re-seal with a further varnish coat at the very end as you would with any paintjob.

3) Find a glass jar with a wide mouth, and decant the AP into that. Far easier to keep clean and therefore almost no issues with having it spoil over a period of months.

4) Cheaper alternatives exist. Minwax Polyshades is such an example.

5) If you're after a wash rather than a dip (I think it sounds like you are, especially if you are only painting 4-5 figs), you can either buy some ready-made, or make your own. Making your own is cheaper and superior. Link here explains how quite well how to do this.

6) If you make your own washes, it is much easier to make a lot, make any shade you want, etc. I would in fact recommend making a colourless wash (i.e., with no pigment) mixture, storing it in a dropper bottle, and adding a few drops to whatever colour you happen to need. This effectively turns every paint in your collection into a wash on demand with little or no wastage.

7) Using either ready-made or self-made acrylic washes is a lot kinder to your brushes, and dries consistently like normal paint does. You can also mix them with your paints on a palette to alter their tint, translucency, etc.

[FramFramson]

Quick shade is more meant for people wanting to paint large regiments up quickly. The idea is you paint block colours maybe some highlights then paint on or dip the quick shade and it helps define the model adding shadow etc. Then you need to hit it with a matt varnish to take the shine away.

I know people who use tudor miniwax to get the same effect.

I have the Army painter dark tone dip and have used it on some mantic elves. I could see myself using it more if I wanted to paint up a large army quickly but I would rather do washes and painting myself than use it for anything else.

Here is what I achived by just painting block colours where I wanted them with no highlights then painting on the quickshade. I then wiped the quick shade from raised surfaces where I could.



They are a little frosted due to the varnish clouding but it gives a decent idea of how it works. Its certainly a time saver. But the effect isn't usually as good as painting it yourself.

Miniwax is about half the price of Army Painter dip and seems to work the same way, might be a better way to try it.

What army is that? Mantic? GameZone?