(Kickstarter) Dungeon Scenics and other weirdness

[robh]

Apparently there are 4 sculptors in the team and they have a contract caster working with them.

I asked if they would do a photo journal of one of the bigger pieces from start to finish during the Kickstarter so we can see how they do it, along with some questions about the materials and technique. He says they use Pro-Create and then add details in green stuff (although the IceAge pages also mention using Miliput). Should be informative to see, they suggested using the Porcine Whale as the example.  

I am backing this one purely for the dungeon scenery and 3D spell effects which should prove simple enough to make and cast. I am hoping that the lack of support for the bigger pieces does not drag the whole KS down.

[Elbows]

I know this thread seems harsh, but personally I think that's one of the best aspects of a Kickstarter program.  We've seen it before - when someone launches something they think is good/will-sell...and the entire community says "noooo, no thanks!".  This is priceless information for the manufacturer/people who are running the Kickstarter even if its not the response they were hoping for.

I think we've all seen the scary side of this hobby: game stores popping up and closing down within 6 months...gaming companies going bankrupt or closing up shop.  It's a supremely tough market.  If Kickstarter feedback and other feedback from this type of forum convinces a person/group to not go through with a business plan - it could be saving a LOT of money, heart ache and pain.

I'd much rather do a Kickstarter for say $50,000...see $3,600 in backers and realize "damn, I shouldn't do this!" than take out a $50K loan...go through the motions to then only sell $3,600 worth of product.     So yes, we're not big fans of the sculpts or the KS, but there is a silver lining in there if it saves someone's finances.

[nic-e]

I know this thread seems harsh, but personally I think that's one of the best aspects of a Kickstarter program.  We've seen it before - when someone launches something they think is good/will-sell...and the entire community says "noooo, no thanks!".  This is priceless information for the manufacturer/people who are running the Kickstarter even if its not the response they were hoping for.

I think we've all seen the scary side of this hobby: game stores popping up and closing down within 6 months...gaming companies going bankrupt or closing up shop.  It's a supremely tough market.  If Kickstarter feedback and other feedback from this type of forum convinces a person/group to not go through with a business plan - it could be saving a LOT of money, heart ache and pain.

I'd much rather do a Kickstarter for say $50,000...see $3,600 in backers and realize "damn, I shouldn't do this!" than take out a $50K loan...go through the motions to then only sell $3,600 worth of product.     So yes, we're not big fans of the sculpts or the KS, but there is a silver lining in there if it saves someone's finances.

There was a theory that Gates of Antares was in fact free market research.i think that is a good point, even a failed kickstarter is a good learning experience.

[Major_Gilbear]

Guys, I agree it's good market research. I also suspect that after three previous attempts, the lesson may not be being learned... 

As for dishonesty - I don't think this a Defiance Games style scam.

However, I do think that they need to:

1) Focus the campaign on properly related items (sea monsters have nothing to do with dungeon furniture for example). Explain to the backers clearly what your goal is. Right now it seems vague and enthusiastic, and without any real idea of what you're doing.

2) Focus on completing one model before moving onto the next. WIP shots are fine, but you have far too many with almost none finished. What little is finished is frankly pretty amateurish - maybe you need to hire a professional miniatures sculptor to help give your sculpting team a few lessons on how to refine your skills for the industry (this is not as weird as it sounds).

3) Make the models in something more sensible for detailing and mould making. Also, understand/learn how casting works. I'm certain that the experience of working with big bronzes is quite different from working with small resin/pewter figs. For example, I see lots of details sculpted with zero regard for practical moulding (or actually painting for that matter).

4) Show scale shots with other manufacturer's figures. This is how people will be using your models anyway, so help them make the decision by giving them that information. This helps you with (6) below as well.

5) Don't promise what you can't deliver. This relates to (1) above, and also to being truthful/accurate with what you present. Those computer-rendered models for example showed complete disregard for the practicalities of moulding and were not "painted" as stated.

6) Finally, might be worth looking at what other companies are putting out. Your models so far look less appealing and more expensive than the sorts of ceramic/resin paperweight/fishtank junk you get from thrift shops (example). If you want to compete in a tight market successfully, you need to demonstrate a better awareness of what you're offering against what can already be obtained elsewhere. Just making a super-niche figure and hoping for novelty value to carry you is extremely naive.

BtGoA had many similar problems with vagueness and only raised the funding it did because of the ex-GW heavyweights pushing it. I have no doubt it would have struggled commercially had it funded at a lower level. At least Rick had the sense to see that though.

[Malebolgia]

All of the sculpts I see look absolutely garbage in comparison to what we're used to with other companies. The sculpted fur looks terrible...even I can do a better job and I suck at sculpting! Really, don't understand why people throw their money at this Kickstarter.

[robh]

I know this thread seems harsh.....

But justified and argued, not just the set of drive by attacks it could have become (and would have been on other forums..... imagine the reception to those pictures on TMP or god forbid, Frothers)

These guys seem totally genuine and enthusiastic for what they are doing and with 19 days still to go on I hope they get enough support to see it through.....I really want the dungeon scenics.

[Elbows]

Not to divert this any more off course but there is another dungeon scenery Kickstarter starting in September by...someone else? (I think there is a post about it on this page).  Keep an eye out! 

[robh]

There are 2 imminent currently, Zealot have one as do BattleSystems.  I will be keeping an eye on both looking for D&D themed drop in pieces. I don't need any more "Dungeon" just the fittings/furnishings.