Painting Matters! In Defense of Hobby Standards.

[Cubs]

Also, no ginger beards.

[grant]

I agree and disagree.

Pick one, you must. Middle ground, there is not.

[Momotaro]

So for the "painted only" chaps, what's the minimum level?  Base colour other than white or black?  Would you accept a figure painted as a chess piece in ivory or red (with a wash and highlight), or painted as different metallic colours (again, base, wash+highlight)?

Do you treat every gaming night as an "event"?  I've seen a lot of GW tourney types play a new unit with chits before committing to buying the unit, so not everyone does - a game can be a practice or "just to try tactics".  Is it a "precious time" thing?

[former user]

no middle ground between encouragement and bullying?  sad world....

[Momotaro]

Thank you, Sir,

This thread seemed to make me feel like I should leave LAF because I paint slowly and prefer to play than paint.  How dare I let Real Life, family, friends, other interest interfere with my painting...

Isn't this hobby small enough without unnecessary exclusiveness?

Gracias,

Glenn

There's room for everyone Glenn!  There's a table here with good chat, a single malt whisky, and your figures are welcome too.

[Tactalvanic]

 That shouldn't matter between friends.

That.

I like to paint a little, its good for the soul it seems. But.

what we choose and how we choose to do it is our personal choice. If with that we find ways to exclude others, regardless of the justifications felt, real or imagined, our little worlds get smaller. But that is personal choice.

as you say room for everybody, and everybody should get to reasonably do as they wish with their hobbies, however, this to me, as a damned slow painter (thanks real-life), is a little to harsh.

If someone is playing with unpainted, ok looks a bit meh, but they are playing! If that player is or becomes a friend, I am  not pushing them away, I will if need be help with the paint!

Better to get the game than not at all.

Most importantly better to keep a friend. The friend can play with my minis or cardboard cut-outs for all I care. Lets play - and the chat over whisky sounds damned good to.

[eilif]

Thanks to all those who commented, both in favor and against.

I think a few folks may have taken offense where none was intended, though I did take a deliberately strong tone in the essay. Perhaps some clarifications below will help.

no middle ground between encouragement and bullying?  sad world....

At our club I think we have a great middle ground.  For every game we play, we make a point have enough figures amongst the club members to provide a painted force for anyone who wants to game. we discuss each game night ahead of time on our yahoo group so we know who is bringing what.  This is easy for games like Song of Blades, but even on the occasion that we play bigger games like 40k or Kings of War, we can get an extra army or two or split our armies to let the newbie have a force. The door is always open to visitors and newbies, but the table is only open to painted minis.

So you could say that we walk a line of trying to include everyone, while maintaining high standards for our games.

Unless they were for some reason very insistent on putting their own unpainted miniatures on the table, I don't think anyone who posted on this thread would find our club to be an unwelcoming place. 

So for the "painted only" chaps, what's the minimum level?  Base colour other than white or black?  Would you accept a figure painted as a chess piece in ivory or red (with a wash and highlight), or painted as different metallic colours (again, base, wash+highlight)?

Interestingly, we've never had to define this. Probably because in the four years that the club has existed no one has ever tried to break the "spirit of the law" by putting figures on the table that appeared unpainted.  The exception being some in-progress minis now and then.  Folks who are in the club know that painted minis is a shared value of the group and so far we haven't had anyone who deliberately tries to bend the rules.

My minis are base coated, dipped and sometimes drybrushed, many of us have figures that were not painted by ourselves (often we paint for each other to avoid burnout) and we even have some games where we use rebased prepaints, so I think it's fair to say that we're not elitist regarding the quality of the paintjobs.

Do you treat every gaming night as an "event"?  I've seen a lot of GW tourney types play a new unit with chits before committing to buying the unit, so not everyone does - a game can be a practice or "just to try tactics".  Is it a "precious time" thing?

That's a very good question.
We meet every other week, and I guess we kind of do view the club night as an event. There's usually (though not always) one ruleset that everyone is playing, often several games simultaneously. Many times this is part of a campaign. We're reasonably laid back about the competition aspect (though we're all playing to win), so you won't find alot of pre-playing for tactics.   For us it's possibly best summed up that we're a bunch of (mostly) 30 somethings with jobs and real lives, when we get together to game, we want the best experience possible.

Put another way, most of us feel that when your gaming time is limited,  "Life's to short to play with unpainted minis".

[gary42]

Can't...  mustn't...  DARE NOT field unpainted minis.  Never had to play against anyone that didn't paint their minis though.   I guess I would be compelled to paint them for my poor, sad friend that didn't paint.   If I saw them on the table I'd be all...  If ....I can just.... get to...my...paint....utility belt....!

Oddly, the better I think I've painted a squad, the sadder I am when they loose!

[Gibby]

Nothing against unpainted figures here. No one WANTS to use em but sometimes you may want to get playing sooner. At least you will eventually see more of the forces painted as games go by, and the games keep up the inspiration to paint!

[Vermis]

I paint slowly and prefer to play than paint.

Me too. I've fielded a few unpainted minis in my time (in fact I don't think I've ever played a game of Malifaux with a painted crew) but always with the goal that they'll be painted sometime. In my view, and what I took from Eilif's article, is there's a difference between slow painting, and people I've seen who chop minis off the sprue and slather them in glue as quickly as possible, but keep fielding them as grey armies because they're 'gamers not painters'.

One club I attend, at most once a month, has a kinda-informal painted minis rule. (or guideline, if you will) Minis preferably need at least three colours, at least for the occasional joint project 'event' game, rather than regular friendlies. The other guys manage it, and have the advantage that they usually already have a few regiments painted up for the agreed period or army. The problem is that a few of them are some of the most atrocious painters I've seen. But they don't mind, and get it slapped on quick for the big game.

It does leave me at a disadvantage, usually only contributing a small number of minis and pulling my hair out for a couple of nights before the game. Though that has a lot to do with my own regrettable tendency to procrastination, and I can't really bring myself to disagree with the rule. It is relatively easy to fulfil, particularly with minis that've been started off with a basecoat, skintones, a couple of metallics etc. My first historical army upon joining the club was anglo-saxons, and painted like that to the approval of the other club members (I never finished them before selling them on), and I whizzed through the basecoats of a small Warmaster high elf army, with the intent of going back and filling in all the shading and highlights later. But, as the club members usually say, it doesn't make much difference halfway across the table. What'd look odder is if they were all just bare metal glinting back at me from across the table, a few months later.

I don't think it's very elitist: we're all in the same boat (I think I have more time on my hands than some of them), we discuss what would be realistic goals for each of us, and we egg eachother on. I know I need that last activity meself, or the ol' hobby butterfly would drag me away from getting pretty much anything done, let alone painted up.

Our next joint project is a 15mm Waterloo game for the bicentenary. I have a year to paint up two divisions for Napoleon's Battles (just over 100 figures?) in as sloppy or as neat a paintjob as I like. It doesn't make me feel oppressed, or bullied. The "thou shalt not shun the paintless mini lest thou embody all society's ills" attitude feels more oppressive to me.

(often we paint for each other to avoid burnout)

You monster.

[eilif]

You monster.

Yeah, we're really bad people, what with all our helping and sharing and encouraging….

Seriously, though it's been a big help for me. I've been building a KoW army largely from Battlemasters figures and it's mind numbing painting 20-40 identical sculpts. However, I'm quite fast (and pretty good if I may say) at making terrain, so I've done several exchanges where I build (or rebuild a stalled project in some cases) a piece of terrain for other members in exchange for them painting up 10 or 20 line troops.

[matakishi]

Interesting.
There are many branches of 'wargaming' and not all of them overlap.
My wargaming hobby does not include, for instance, re-enacting, competition games, tournaments, Games Workshop games, or playing with unpainted figures.
Your wargaming hobby may include any or all of the above.
Neither of us is better, we just have different interests that often seem similar but really aren't. A bit like golf and cricket, both involve hitting balls with sticks but...
I have no interest in getting involved in the 'similar' pass-times I've mentioned above for my own very good reasons but I don't look down on the people who do. I just don't join in their hobbies. I don't play golf either.
I have found there are plenty of people interested my version of wargaming, many of them frequent this forum.
Do what you want, when you want, how you want but don't tell me I have to change what I do to fit in with you because I'm not trying to fit in with you and I don't want to.
If, however, you want to try out my version of wargaming I will give you all the help and encouragement I can.

[CPBelt]

This is an ancient topic that has been hashed to death over and over again at The Miniatures Page.  Sadly, it occurs in model railroading as well.

I say its a strange little hobby. Enjoy it as you will. Matakishi speaks wisdom!

[FramFramson]

I have mostly avoided this problem because the only people I have to play with depend on me providing the minis and terrain. I will not typically play with unpainted figures.

If someone else told me they wanted to have a game and had only unpainted minis, I don't think I'd mind. Whoever it was that said you want to see them put in some effort has it right on. If your army has 100 figures in it and you just paint 1 dork per game, I'm okay with that - just show me a little effort, that's all. If not, I suppose I'd still play, but after a while I'd probably start offering to loan out one of my own painted armies (I never get into a game without having supplies for at least three players - even without having to supply other people, I'd simply get too bored playing the same army/team/force all the time).

[eilif]

we just have different interests that often seem similar but really aren't. A bit like golf and cricket, both involve hitting balls with sticks but...

A very different way of putting it, but very apt.  I think I do sometimes feel in my gut that folks playing with grey hordes are participating in an entirely different activity.  I can't totally deny that they are "War Gaming", but I am loathe to validate what's happening on that colorless table with the same term used to describe the visually arresting activity that I and generations of miniature wargamers before me have enjoyed.

For the record, I like your version of wargaming, but that's probably because it matches up with mine.