Gamers with a hobby in Science or Scientists with a hobby of gaming (Fluff help)

[fanfavorite]

Hi all on the PA board-

I am cooking up a setting for a future campaign, all custom work. Rules bashing/kitting aside (something I plan to focus on later as even just the thought of it right now is hurting my head) I am slowly trying to flesh out the IP (also bashed) to form the backdrop. I want to start with the mutants and the other baddies first, as they're always the most interesting... for me at least- and that's where I need your help, if *YOU* are out there.

First up on my to-do list are the inhabitants of the Dreglands (the far outlying irradiated no man's lands, the pockets- oceans if you will, of unforgivable stretches of land cutting off and isolating the *typical* wastelander communities from one another), Dregs- devolved and inbred mutants- dreg dogs, and their other mammalian counterparts.

I am looking for someone to start a correspondence with, or a collective think tank, whether privately or here on the forums in this thread for all to see to piece together some tidbits of science, and biochem, microbiology, etc. etc. that I don't have a grasp on, rework it into classic laymen terms fluff suitable for some handouts for the players.

The inspiriation for these creatures comes from Wastelands 3 Meltdown 'Devolved" faction:

"The devolved are especially inbred mutants whose mutations have stabilized. Their tribe no longer
generates abnormally large or small specimens and they share the same mutations from generation to
generation. A devolved tribe is really more of a pack as they have lost nearly every trace of their human
ancestry and can no longer use tools. The savage devolved are especially hated by other mutants."

[fanfavorite]

Now on to the skeleton of my adaptation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deinococcus_radiodurans

"Deinococcus radiodurans is an extremophilic bacterium, one of the most radioresistant organisms known. It can survive cold, dehydration, vacuum, and acid, and is therefore known as a polyextremophile and has been listed as the world's toughest bacterium in The Guinness Book Of World Records." Nicknamed Conan the Bacterium. Able to withstand levels of radiation thousands of times more powerful than the amount that could instantly kill a human being. Now this is where it gets interesting (and where I need help) it is speculated that this bacteria might be of exterterstial origin to explain not *how* but why an organism would evolve to be so resistant to radiation where natural levels on Earth are nowhere, nowhere near as high to demand such a trait to become dominant. Now this is an interesting idea, especially for a sci-fi world, and might be explored further in the fluff by me (an option I guess), but another theory is far more involved to the overall concept. The bacteria is especially efficent at repairing DNA structures, and rapidly, I guess meaning it essentially can regenerate so rapidly that it will fix any adverse gross or inhibitors, whatever and ever etc. on its genetics. This apparently is through a process called Chromosomal crossover:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromosomal_crossover

And this is where it gets good. Under the last heading on the wiki of Chromosomal crossover *Problems*:

"Although crossovers typically occur between homologous regions of matching chromosomes, similarities in sequence can result in mismatched alignments. These processes are called unbalanced recombination. Unbalanced recombination is fairly rare compared to normal recombination, but severe problems can arise if a gamete containing unbalanced recombinants becomes part of a zygote. The result can be a local duplication of genes on one chromosome and a deletion of these on the other, a translocation of part of one chromosome onto a different one, or an inversion."

This would all account for the regenerative properties, radio-resistance, AND stabilized mutation of these devolved *former* humanoids and their animal counterparts.

Having someone explain this is a cool fluffy way would be awesome! But there's more to it, hear me out! *hopes he's not boring anyone yet*:

Like Lichen (a little alliteration) I want the bacteria and the host to be a composite organism. These now being essentially mindless shells of their former self I want the bacteria to play a bigger role in their reproduction and growth. How do I put it..?.. where as before the living organism would be a host for microorganisms, now the microorganisms are the host, or device for the former creature to function. A friend of mine reminded me of  that fungus that takes over an ant's mind- etc etc. and controls it to find a more adventitious spot for the spores to burst.

So here is the question for any science geeks, can a microorganism effect the DNA structure of a much more larger and complex creature (at least enough for some good ol' post fallout *magic* to influence) and be the predominant factor of its life, procreation, and overall persistence in nature?

[fanfavorite]

Let me show you the models I intend to use to maybe give you some visual stimulus:

the dregs:




dreg dogs:




unnamed (as of yet) bigger and grosser variants:



and

[fanfavorite]

The last question at this point: how do I explain such variation in size of the creatures if the mutation has been stabilized by the bacteria?

any thoughts, ideas for the fluff and its application, science buff input, or shared head scratching is welcome! a preemptive thanks!

[Arlequín]

I'm with Scurv on this... by going into an in-depth theory of the 'hows' and 'whys', you will be wasting valuable print space on stuff most gamers don't want to read. Anybody seriously into gene research already has a background of reading in it and could probably argue your points into oblivion. Result: Your attempt to provide 'realism' will colour their view on the rest of what you've done.

Even seven experts will give you eight different theories and experiment result interpretations, all of which can end up in the trash when the next 'breakthrough' becomes evident.

Being vague on the origins, but heavy on what has resulted is a far better course to take. A "they're here, what we going to do about it?" aspect is the hallmark of every good zombie/sci-fi plot. Can you name one good film, game or book, that has been a success, because of its in-depth fluff on what caused 'the virus'?

You are obviously into theorising and researching, I'd suggest you put those talents into creating your setting and story, rather than trying to explain how it all happened in the first place. As Scurv says, most gamers like a little freedom within what they play, allowing the addition of their own creativity on top of your own, rather than a restrictive environment that is chained to 'truths'.

   

[sykoholic]

The last question at this point: how do I explain such variation in size of the creatures if the mutation has been stabilized by the bacteria?

Size variation could be the result of natural and artificial selection. In the animal world, a large, strong, healthy individual is the instinctively preferred mate due to the likelihood of them producing large, strong, healthy offspring. With this in mind, it could be the smaller "mutants" are not permitted to breed with the larger "mutants". Largers breed with largers and smallers breed with smallers and they have done so long enough that the respective genes have become dominate thereby, effectively, creating two (or more) seperate sub-species: Big'Uns and Lil'Uns.

It could also be the result of environmental adaptation. In some environments (such as subterranean, jungles, heavy forest, etc.) large size is a disadvantage. A smaller creature is better suited for scurrying through tunnels, ducking under low branches, and whatnot. As a result, the number of large creatures is reduced (ie: killed off) by predation, accidents, starvation, and whatnot thereby removing the "large size" gene from the population.

[akodo]

where are the dregs from?

[Sterling Moose]

where are the dregs from?

They're the new GW Goblins from The Hobbit.

[JediNinja]

Just my 2 cents worth (2 pence?), but just to make it easier on you, just say a meteor hit earth.  As it broke up into smaller parts, some extraterrestrial bacteria was introduced into the biosphere.  These bacteria found a fertile ground to grow and with the native radiation levels as they were, the bacteria itself also mutated.  Hence why humanity is struggling to deal with it and why you have such diverse bad guys.  The bacteria reacted differently with different organisms.



 

[akodo]

I never replied much on the science part before, let me do so now.

Number one, all multcellular life uses DNA gathered in chromosomes, and uses Meiosis or Mitosis.   Many lifeforms procreate by mating with themselves.  Inbreeding is not the fountain of mutation that so many seem to think it is.  What inbreeding does is say is that 'a close relative of the creature in question is more likely to share the same existing genetic trait (or flaw) than a random non-relative.  For recessive traits this means close relation matings are more likely to result in the trait manifesting.

Now, what CAN happen is environmental influences coming in to play on the individuals and on the population.

For example, the muties may all be hairless.  However this isn't because of too much inbreeding, this is because (choose one, or multiple)
1. Radiation makes their hair fall out.  If they were raised away form radiation they would have normal hair
2. Slipping, scraping, and crawling through tight gaps all the time physically removes the hair.  If the population didn't spend their time scavenging in abandoned cities and instead grew crops, soon their hair would grow back
3. Some disease (like mange) is effecting the group.  If it was cured hair would return.

What's good about things like this, it is can affect many species making them all bald.

Also, there is the potential for cultural reasons.  Muties shave because it is part of their mutie religion/superstition.

Second, there is always natural selection going on.  Contrary to popular belief about evolution, it generally isn't a slow and steady pace leading to somewhere.  Most often evolution is a change in the environment or opening up of some ecological niche followed by very rapid natural selection to deal with the new reality followed by long periods of very minor changes.

On his voyage on the Beagle Darwin looked at finches isolated on islands.  The idea there was that a pregnant female or breeding pair blew onto the island and from their the descendants evolved to fill a variety of food gathering niches, changing their beak structure along the way.  That was in it's own way rapid evolution happening because the niches were open.  (Most other finches would never have offspring that diverged so far because those same niches were filled by other birds.)  Still, the idea was it took a few thousand years from the initial pair to 18 different species of specialized finches.  However later studies showed that the birds actually responded to changes in food supply with major beak changes in just a handful of generations.

An apocalypse is going to open up all sorts of new niches and reward all sorts of traits that were before probably undesirable.  There is no need to have rampant inbreeding or some reason for mutations to stabilize due to bacteria or whatever...just some generations of change in a very different environment.    And you don't need to have a thousand years, just a handful of generations and it wouldn't be impossible to go from modern humans to a subsection of the population who were these 'dregs' you mentioned.   Isolated populations were exposed to different niches and rapidly adapted differently.  AND/OR isolated populations means that group A happened to have a few individuals with some rare gene that was beneficial and in 4 generations 95% of that tribe had the gene...but group B had no individuals with that rare gene and hence looks quite different.  (Note, the rare gene could have already existed in the population prior to the disaster, or be a relatively recent mutation)

Finally, often a mutation will have unexpected impacts outside of the direct area where it is coming into play.   For example in a study of domestication, generations of foxes were raised with only the most tame being allowed to breed.  There was a neurochemical that made foxes more tolerant of humans.  Foxes that genetically produced more of this were more tame and had a chance to keep on passing on their genes, including the ones that caused more of this taming neurochemical.  It turns out that this neurochemical interfered with coat coloration, so the foxes where both more tame but also started to have white spots and blazes.  In your world it could be that a mutation allows the dregs to better withstand radiation, heat, tainted water, better digest fibrous plants, or whatever, and this same mutation ALSO causes their eyes to be red rather than brown/green/blue (or whatever change you want)  That way you don't try and have to come up with some reason why red eyes would give the dregs a natural selection advantage.  This allows you to give your dregs horns, claws, 3 teeth, 8 fingers per hand, or whatever, and just link it to some other more directly beneficial mutation.

Heck, it could be two separate genes, but they just happened to be on the same chromosome.  So Bob happened to have a gene that allowed him to better stand up to eating spoiled food.  Any offspring of Bob's who gets the chromosome that gene is on has a natural selection advantage.  In 4 generations, 95% of the population of that tribe have that chromosome.  Bob also happened to have 6 fingers.  The 6 finger gene happened to be right next to the 'spoiled food is safe to eat' gene on the same chromosome, so 95% of the tribe also have 6 fingers.


Finally, this is all well and good for YOU to figure out what you want in your world....but as others have said you probably don't want to fill up your rule-book on the 'WHY' the 'tribe from the northern slope' have some weird mutation, just that they have this mutation and that means they have this in-game ability.