Disabled tabletop gamers and the hobby

[Robosmith]

Everyone knows of the Perry twins and most know one of them is unfortunately disabled. While pondering this and some personal experiences it made me curious about other disabled people in the hobby. There's many of us out there with some kind of disability from physical ones to health conditions which can prevent us from working on our hobby projects or attending events we would like to. It would be interesting to see how the hobby impacts disabled tabletop gamers in both their experiences but also the benefits of the hobby.

I've noticed in some tabletop circles as of late there has been a lot of (to put it nicely) pandering towards some groups of disabled people. As someone who is disabled, I've found it's shallow and dishonest in the worst way. I don't think many people are looking for a Goblin Wheelchair when they go into their local hobby shop looking for a new project (I would have considered this a joke 15 years ago to be honest). There are a lot of disabled gamers out there with far more interesting stories than just being disabled. I'd like to avoid a pity party and discuss the impact of the hobby in both directions and maybe find some thing we wouldn't have discovered other wise.

I've had to adapt my painting style to avoid dry brushing and make extra use of ink washes to avoid painful flare ups. It's made me want to develop a more unique painting style all of my own because of my painting restrictions. I'm not a fan of woe is me stories and don't see it that way. I see it as an interesting journey to take where I get to explore new styles of paintings (and spend an awful lot of money on non-miniature painting books for research). It's pushed me to discover some interesting tricks and attempt colour combinations that wouldn't have crossed my path if I was copying the common tutorials.

In a less than stellar situation, I've found it impacts my army choice and game choice in a negative fashion. While many developers are fazing them out now, games which split players turns except in rare reactions give brief rest periods for disabled people. Being able to sit for a few minutes between moving models (I'm sure this helps chaps with bad backs too) is a godsend. Always being on your feet and leaning across the table to move things for hours or even a full day can be really taxing or lead to a worse condition for the next few days. Horde armies and games like Warhammer pushing army sizes can lead to difficulties too. When an average size game has 30 models there's a lot less to move than a game where a unit might have 30 or more models. It's a real shame because I love goblins but I'm never painting up a full goblin army or moving them across the table.

[Warren Abox]

Thank you for posting this it's nice to read this kind of sanity and practical approach to dealing with the challenges of daily life and the roadblocks that it can throw up between you and the hobby.

We are war gamers, so we know that sometimes the dice don't fall the way we want them to. The tabletop challenge is doing the best you can with the scenario you're given and adjusting your strategy to what the dice give you.  Not demanding changes to the scenario and not demanding that we ignore the dice or change the game wholesale to suit your idea of "what should have happened".  Your approach is the mature one and an honorable one.

I don't have much to add to the conversation, but wanted to let you know how much I respect the way you're approaching these challenges. And also that I'd be honored to share a table with you any day.

[Codsticker]

It's possible that many are over compensating for what could be described as indifference in the past (in society in general). There does seem to be a drive to be inclusive that- despite the good intentions- comes across as overdone, or possibly even crass.

[Robosmith]

It's possible that many are over compensating for what could be described as indifference in the past (in society in general). There does seem to be a drive to be inclusive that- despite the good intentions- comes across as overdone, or possibly even crass.

Wasn't my intention to take the topic that way, but since it's been brought up. I've never found anything to be excluding, players, club organizers and shop owners alike all take it in their stride and just roll with it. That's what bothers me most about the pandering, people who wanted to be involved already were. It's people who have no interest in the activity they're trying to change doing it and they will move on as soon as it's done.

[robh]

It's people who have no interest in the activity they're trying to change doing it and they will move on as soon as it's done.

This is the crux of the matter. The whole hateful woke thing is never about the supposed subject of the "injustice" it is a political ego trip for the twitter mobs. 

The woman behind the "wheelchair of representation" is not disabled, she 'self identifies' as a disabled person to give gravitas to her repulsive stance, the syndrome she claims to have is not recognised as a disability.  Thankfully idiots like her have not had much impact on the wargaming hobby yet, but they are actively trying to wreck the rpg hobby, and sadly seem to be succeeding.

I am legally a registered "disabled" person, having blinded myself in one eye in an accident on my farm, although compared to what I think qualifies as disability it is nothing. I had to adjust to a new way of painting as since the accident I have no depth of field and am red/green colour blind.
I accept now that I cannot work to the same level of detail as I used to and had to simplify a lot of previous techniques moving to more drybrush and wash or cell shading than blends. I need vastly more light to work now and cannot paint in long sessions but overall it does not affect my enjoyment of that side of my hobby. Although I do stub a lot of paintbrushes as I can't tell where the brush tip ends and the figure begins.

[AKULA]

This is the crux of the matter. The whole hateful woke thing is never about the supposed subject of the "injustice" it is a political ego trip for the twitter mobs. 

The woman behind the "wheelchair of representation" is not disabled, she 'self identifies' as a disabled person to give gravitas to her repulsive stance, the syndrome she claims to have is not recognised as a disability.  Thankfully idiots like her have not had much impact on the wargaming hobby yet, but they are actively trying to wreck the rpg hobby, and sadly seem to be succeeding.

I’ve got to confess that the woke wargame wave had completely passed me by...but then the WiFi is poor in my cave. Not sure if this is the same lady but I’m curious about the “professional Wargamer”.... clearly I’m doing this all wrong, I didn’t realise we got paid.

https://wavellroom.com/2021/01/15/wargaming-has-a-diversity-problem/

[Ogrob]

For a forum with a no politics rule a lot of people here seem to have no problem bashing opinions that they disagree with.

[robh]

..... Not sure if this is the same lady....

No, that is different sjw, but claiming the same self elected right to tell you how to live your life.

@Ogrob.  I am sure you don't really want to know how I feel about the SJWs.

[Captain Blood]

For a forum with a no politics rule a lot of people here seem to have no problem bashing opinions that they disagree with.

Correct.

No politics, current affairs or real world contentious issues here, thank you.

Perfectly valid to discuss issues of disability as relating to / experienced by wargamers, but it's going to take a lot of good sense and restraint to keep that discussion firmly on the rails without it veering off into the expression of views that are basically political (in the broadest sense) in nature.

So please try your best to keep the discussion on the OP's topic. So it can remain open.

Thank you

[Mammoth miniatures]

@Ogrob.  I am sure you don't really want to know how I feel about the SJWs.

Because you're doing such a good job of presenting a level headed and impartial opinion as it is...

the thing about a hobby is that you don't have to do all of it. some people don't want miniatures in wheelchairs, but alot of people clearly do or they'd have never made it to the shelf. People like to see themselves in the activities they spend their time on. if you don't want them then don't buy them and tada, problem solved.

[Brummie]

Lets not move too far away from the original post.

I've noticed actually a few posts by members of this forum lately commenting about having physical disabilities that are adversely affecting their hobby. In some cases it seems to force them to give up almost altogether and they're pushed to the sidelines so reading about how someone is overcoming this and getting around these issues is an important discussion to be had for cohorts of our community.

Personally until this thread I can honestly say with some regret that the subject never even occurred to me how folks with physical (or even mental?) disabilities engage with the hobby.

[Robosmith]

The woman behind the "wheelchair of representation" is not disabled, she 'self identifies' as a disabled person to give gravitas to her repulsive stance, the syndrome she claims to have is not recognised as a disability.  Thankfully idiots like her have not had much impact on the wargaming hobby yet, but they are actively trying to wreck the rpg hobby, and sadly seem to be succeeding.

I don't know the lady in person to comment on her health condition. Depending on the day of the week and who you see you can be disabled or not disabled officially. You can even be told you're disabled but not enough disabled to be counted as disabled. There's disabilities like chronic fatigue or fibro which have flare up cycles and you can be fine one day and at a 8-9 pain the next day because you woke up on the wrong side of the bed.

the thing about a hobby is that you don't have to do all of it. some people don't want miniatures in wheelchairs, but alot of people clearly do or they'd have never made it to the shelf. People like to see themselves in the activities they spend their time on. if you don't want them then don't buy them and tada, problem solved.

I think you underestimate how much money there is in "support" groups of various kinds. There's a lot of grants you can get for producing things like this. They don't have to make money and often they don't. Marvel comics is a good example of something which pushes this angle heavily and bleeds money for it, which is crazy since the movies have been huge for so long. The mini games sell really well and have made an active choice not to use the modern comic characters but stick to the originals.

Lets not move too far away from the original post.

I've noticed actually a few posts by members of this forum lately commenting about having physical disabilities that are adversely affecting their hobby. In some cases it seems to force them to give up almost altogether and they're pushed to the sidelines so reading about how someone is overcoming this and getting around these issues is an important discussion to be had for cohorts of our community.

Personally until this thread I can honestly say with some regret that the subject never even occurred to me how folks with physical (or even mental?) disabilities engage with the hobby.

It's not something you should be actively chasing if it's not something you're personally effected by IMO. Unless you are unable to use your arms/hands at all, there's always a way to do hobby projects. Army painter and contrast paints do a great job of making painting models fast and good enough for the table.

One issue I didn't address which maybe of interest is the structure of tournament play and often the location. If you have a disability that isn't stable and changes from day to day booking in advance can be risky. You could wake up unable to attend and if you do it repeatedly I would expect you to get black listed by TOs. There's only so many times you can cancel before people write you off (and I don't blame them). It's a barrier you can't do much about but it has come to mind when I see an event I would like to go to and then back out for that reason. Multi day events or long drawn out events increase the likelihood of symptoms appearing and needing to back out. I remember a TCG tournament where half way through my condition got worse and I was struggling to play at any reasonable level by round 7 or so. I don't have a good solution for this, it's how life is for some people and that's fine. Finding ways to better manage events to make them one day instead of a final game on day two for example might make it easier for some people. Some conditions have a boom/bust style pattern where today you can act fine and tomorrow you're cursing your existence from the rebound. Like kicking a football at a wall and it hitting you in the face a day later.

Location is something which could be improved but might cause a small cost increase and could be too much for TOs to increase by. Lots of tournaments are held in major cities like London, traveling to and from those locations can often involved multiple stops and long walks between train/bus and venue. Selecting locations where the car park is right by the door, a bus or train stops right on top of it are small changes which can make a big difference. Big cities can be harder to navigate, and I've found smaller towns are better suited to this type of arrangement. Venues are usually picked by what can be had on the cheap with the needed space, yet many church halls and village halls are ideal venues for pretty cheap which towns and even large villages are happy to let you use. It may even be worth some of the more popular tournament and company venues like Mantic and Element games having a word with the local council and asking if an additional stop could be added to a common bus route to make it easier to attend events there.

Again, not looking for a pity party, I'm just a dude dealing with what I have how I can. It can get frustrating at times and discussing it with others in the same boat is a good way to let off steam and see ways to do things I may have missed.

[tin shed gamer]

I thought long and hard about this before answer this topic.I know both sides of this conversation Very very well and theirs The bigotry of personal experiences on both sides.But worst of all misunderstanding. Including the experience of the young lady in the link her sweeping generalization and subsequent conclusion.Is the result of a very unpleasant encounter with a Bell End. Every club has one at the very least.Just as every workplace has one reguardless of gender.
Just a we all know most club's don't consist of mainly university graduates.( Yes I have a degree but not till my late twenties. My only experience of a Russell group university was waking up with' strange ceiling syndrome' and panicking about getting back to Catterick on time)
Over the year's I've been shot at, stabbed, set on fire, beaten, bitten, spat at,scalded, run over. Verbally abused, drinks spiked,and thrown through window's. Only two these things didn't happen when I was a nurse( RN MH,RN LD, & CNB  thats the degrees ) and several of these were from the members public.Whilst accompanying someone with a disability.

Captain Blood is absolutely correct.
I assure you all if you wander of the original topic .Your in danger of being totally mis understood and mis quoted. Reguardless your intentions .This is a minefield and your wandering in on a pogo stick.
Back on topic.
Figure painting , model painting , and gaming are valid therapeutic tools.
Over the years I've used these with people both physical and mental health challenges.Working for several charities.

Now I make toys and museum pieces for a living( it's a lot less stabby     ) I just meander aimlessly on this forum for the sense of community. I know there's a fair few veterans on hear with their own challenges be it chatting in PM's about nights punctuated by History lessons and the insomnia that merrily plonks you on here in the middle of the night.
I while back found my self triggered quite out of the blue. By a thread on the Tan Wars .Totally unexpected .Ireland was a particularly tough paper round .But I chat with its author gave some perspective and  common ground.

I quite happy as member of this forum to have my brain's picked and will help people find short cuts and techniques that work for them.As is the forum membership as a whole.
I will no longer write public tutorials on here( as they have of late become blueprints for several small companies which was not what they were intended for.) But I'll happily talk you through problems and methods to achive a goal .Or through a PM.

So to the OP.( and anyone else of course.)
Is there anything in particular work around you'd like to find for your original technique or a project you'd like to do . But not sure how to achieve. I've probably in one work role solved a similar issue or know how too( it's amazing how quickly you find solutions when your income is dependent on your outcomes!)

[Warren Abox]

It is also worth being reminded that we should be compassionate and make every effort to make reasonable accommodations for people whose eyesight or mobility is limited. The classic example is gaming with someone who is legally blind. It's happened to me at a number of conventions, and it really wasn't that big of a deal. The game slowed down a little bit because one of the players required the use of certain visual aids to see the table. Some kind of high powered monocle that gave him a keyhole view of the table.  As a result, he sometimes needed reminding of which units are where. No one took advantage of that, and if they had they would have been called out for it.  Everyone at the table understood and wanted to help him enjoy the day, so we did what we could to make that happen.

Within reason.

At one convention we had a player who was wheelchair bound who asked, after the table and armies were set up, that we break everything down and change the 5x8 ft table to a longer 2.5x16 ft table so that he could always move his own figures.  Given the scenario we were playing and the time constraints we were under, it just wasn't practical at the time. He had to settle for directing others as to how to move his figures for him. we also did that for a few weeks for a regular player that showed up to the table after having shoulder surgery.  It wasn't a perfect solution but it was one everyone could live with.

The key is "reasonable accomodations".  Don't be smug or patronizing.  Don't take advantage of the situation.  Just be cool, man.  On both sides.  That's all it takes.

[jetengine]

Inclusion and appropriate considerations for them are good for the hobby and the buisness element of the hobby.