Garibaldi's Wars of Liberation 28mm range coming soon from Gringo40s

[gringo]

thanks Shikpa

regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com

[italwars]

not the most fearsome looking warriors those "bersaglieri"..maybe with less spaghetti and more sport practice they should look better...
anyway...it's more realistic to be aware of, for our non Italian friends, that , despite their flamboyant headgear and stance, the bersaglieri were and still are an élite unit only in theory....in fact , and i know i'll be strongly attacked by many, they were recruited among the illitterated, demotivated populace from the South of Italy..and .not only after 1870..with no idea of duty and treated with contempt by their officers...their performance, for example at the great Colonial battle of Adwa, was awful...in my primary sources i read that, in order to be allowed to rout in front of their ennemy, contrary to the poor Askari native troops or Alpini that died in place,  they treathned at gun point their officers..they did something similar also during the  peace enforcing mission in Beirut in 1982..refusing to go in patrol duty...during the last battles for the Conquest of Neapolitan Kingdom in 1860 such as Garigliano, Gaeta..also if fighting  outnumbered  and almot beaten ennemies such as the last Neapolitan troops survivors of Volturno, they fought without dash and were easily repulsed by small numbers of Neapolitan Police/Gendarmes, Cacciatori and Irregulars..their so much praised marksmanship was totally untrue..their (poor) musketry training was'nt different from the other infantrymen of the Piedmontese/Italian army..and their training in light infantry tactics was below average if not only theorical..at the beginning of the battle of Castelfidardo and in later skirmish against volunteer Pontifical Zouaves they were totally outclassed...according to an officer present at Adwa the Bersaglieri where "the scum of the Italian Army" made out of ruffians and loafers that line infantry units commanders  all over Italy were very happy to let go and merge into the "Bersaglieri" battalions..again in 1870..vs the agonising Pontifical Army defending Rome (to which the Pope Pio IX had expressily ordered only to show a just token resistance and not to fight) the  Bersaglieri shot at some unarmed and surrendering Pontifical soldiers , above all to steal their watches ecc..,and had to be strongly repressed by their officers...
..if you study in depth Italian Army performances, training and above all  recruiting..you'll easily discover that the only and really élite force was and still is our Alpini Mountain troops...with the Alpini Moutain Artillery being the élite of the élite....certainly not the little Bersaglieri...

[malto cortese]

not the most fearsome looking warriors those "bersaglieri"..maybe with less spaghetti and more sport practice they should look better...
anyway...it's more realistic to be aware of, for our non Italian friends, that , despite their flamboyant headgear and stance, the bersaglieri were and still are an élite unit only in theory....in fact , and i know i'll be strongly attacked by many, they were recruited among the illitterated, demotivated populace from the South of Italy..and .not only after 1870..with no idea of duty and treated with contempt by their officers...their performance, for example at the great Colonial battle of Adwa, was awful...in my primary sources i read that, in order to be allowed to rout in front of their ennemy, contrary to the poor Askari native troops or Alpini that died in place,  they treathned at gun point their officers..they did something similar also during the  peace enforcing mission in Beirut in 1982..refusing to go in patrol duty...during the last battles for the Conquest of Neapolitan Kingdom in 1860 such as Garigliano, Gaeta..also if fighting  outnumbered  and almot beaten ennemies such as the last Neapolitan troops survivors of Volturno, they fought without dash and were easily repulsed by small numbers of Neapolitan Police/Gendarmes, Cacciatori and Irregulars..their so much praised marksmanship was totally untrue..their (poor) musketry training was'nt different from the other infantrymen of the Piedmontese/Italian army..and their training in light infantry tactics was below average if not only theorical..at the beginning of the battle of Castelfidardo and in later skirmish against volunteer Pontifical Zouaves they were totally outclassed...according to an officer present at Adwa the Bersaglieri where "the scum of the Italian Army" made out of ruffians and loafers that line infantry units commanders  all over Italy were very happy to let go and merge into the "Bersaglieri" battalions..again in 1870..vs the agonising Pontifical Army defending Rome (to which the Pope Pio IX had expressily ordered only to show a just token resistance and not to fight) the  Bersaglieri shot at some unarmed and surrendering Pontifical soldiers , above all to steal their watches ecc..,and had to be strongly repressed by their officers...
..if you study in depth Italian Army performances, training and above all  recruiting..you'll easily discover that the only and really élite force was and still is our Alpini Mountain troops...with the Alpini Moutain Artillery being the élite of the élite....certainly not the little Bersaglieri...

My dear friend, I was a bersagliere, in 1982-1983, and in my unit - the 26th battaglione Castelfidardo - there were indeed some 10 privates out of 400 who had not finished their elementray (primary) school, but there were also 4 university graduates (including me) , another 60 or so with a high school diploma, and the rest had at least a junior high diploma. I remember this quite well as the Colonel who was the head of the unit one morning asked us if anyone wanted to enroll in a special course to finish our primary school training - and much to my surprise some ten folks raised their hands.

These guys were rough and in the battalion there was lots of bullyism (nonnismo). I was lucky being in the mortar company as we were "the intellectuals" of the battalion. But I also remember that our training was quite superior to that of the average infantry unit, and that there was a strong esprit de corps. When we were asked if we wanted to enlist as volunteers to go to Beirut, some 50 decided to go, including a friend of mine who came to visit me after he was discharged. He told me Beirut was very tense of course but that everything worked quite well and that he felt he was actually doing something meaningful there. And he was by no means a gung-ho kind of type, but a mild leftie who had very little appreciation for law and order and rank and discipline.

It is true that the average soldier was not particularly sophisticated, but I think this applies to most privates everywhere. I remember one train trip in the UK where I had a long talk with a young British soldier returning home and while he came across as a really nice guy he did not impress me as an Einstein either. Nor was I impressed by the pack of Norwegian youngsters on a night train ride from Narvik - they had just finished their service in Northern Norway and were all drunk as a skunk and devastated the poor car. One of them kept hassling me in the middle of the night  until I managed to pronounce Ingmar Stenmark properly ... which required quite some time.. And we are talking about one of the most civilized people in Europe.

I think your anti-national mood has gone a little overboard, my friend. I think we can all agree that Italy as a nation state has plenty pf problems and flaws, without necessarily desecrating every single national icon.

[italwars]

here we are again...the obessive hunt for infrigments VS "politically correct"  mantra...again at work...are you sure your compulsory military service was with the Bersaglieri and not with STASI?
again i don'care a bit of your morning cries...and'll continue to say the truth..or at least report whats sources (various and serious ones)  say..of course i was'nt at the battlefieds of Castelfidardo or Rome 1870. i totally confirm that, also if being an icon, the bersagliere conscript, in military milieux, was  considered a very poor troop.
 For those who read German ..in many WW1 Austrian veterans war memories litterature  lampoon of bersagliere is very often present certainly not of Alpini...the very good book "Infantry tactics" from Erwin Romel (his sucesful WW1 experience ) mention of Bersagliere giving up without a fight and Italian offcers sad of the performance of their soldiers..the first edition ,very rare to find, show pictures that were carefully deleted in subsequent editions (that were published during the brand new alliance between Germany and Italy)..in which our proud and smiling beraglieri carry their German captors over their shoulders...happy and thakful to their Wurtember Jagers captors that their war service is at least ended....
quite a few timest he  icons happen to be just icons

[gringo]

Gents........thanks for the combined input
we are really only playing at War ...so lets
be on the same side and mates..Viva Italia!!
the object of this range is to make people happy

best regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com

[italwars]

ok Gringo ..i'm Sorry

but may i add..as i saw that you've begin to produce also splendid Pontifical Troops which in my opinion have the most colourful uniforms and variation of troop types ...the Irish btg..."Viva il Papa Re"  

[malto cortese]

here we are again...the obessive hunt for infrigments VS "politically correct"  mantra...again at work...are you sure your compulsory military service was with the Bersaglieri and not with STASI?
again i don'care a bit of your morning cries...and'll continue to say the truth..or at least report whats sources (various and serious ones)  say..of course i was'nt at the battlefieds of Castelfidardo or Rome 1870. i totally confirm that, also if being an icon, the bersagliere conscript, in military milieux, was  considered a very poor troop.
 For those who read German ..in many WW1 Austrian veterans war memories litterature  lampoon of bersagliere is very often present certainly not of Alpini...the very good book "Infantry tactics" from Erwin Romel (his sucesful WW1 experience ) mention of Bersagliere giving up without a fight and Italian offcers sad of the performance of their soldiers..the first edition ,very rare to find, show pictures that were carefully deleted in subsequent editions (that were published during the brand new alliance between Germany and Italy)..in which our proud and smiling beraglieri carry their German captors over their shoulders...happy and thakful to their Wurtember Jagers captors that their war service is at least ended....
quite a few timest he  icons happen to be just icons

My morning cries? I thought we were having a civilized discussion here, not a shouting match. I tried to counter your argument without recurring to any stereotypes or insults, hoping you could do the same - maybe I misjudged you, you seem to believe that shouting louder or calling the opponent all sorts of names is the best way to win an argument. And you are calling me a supporter of political correctness while I have never been one. Nor did I tell you that the bersagliere were intellectually superior - quite the contraty, I think, my argument was that they were not: I have always thought I had found myself amidst a bunch of brutes. But then this is not a striking feature of this unit in particular, as most infantrymen tend to be like that. And finally, I rely on the most primary evidence I could find, my own personal one. You rely on secundary sources, I am afraid, most of which coming from the enemy.... I will let the blog decide.

[Shipka]

Guys, this thread is too highlight Geds endeavours and provide uniform information, not to reduce the hobby to pugilist event.....

[gringo]

nearly Christmas lads...good will to all men!!
as I always say Viva Italia

aaaaaaaaaanyway...........my Papal troops are progressing
I can feel the electronic handshake and serenity is returning.
lets sign the peace treaty and move on chaps

best regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com

[Shipka]

 Cant wait to see the finished figures

[Sparrow]

Hi - rookie question - I'm intrigued about this whole period. It seems to have huge potential yet is "fashionably ignored" by most wargamers in the U.K. For a newbie to the period could somebody point me towards, say, half a dozen decent books in English I can start from?

[Orctrader]

...nearly Christmas lads...

Do you have a Christmas Sale?  

Seriously, happened to catch a Radio Four discussion on Garibaldi this week.  Still available on catch-up - think this only works in UK - but also MP3.  Not sure if the downloads work in other countries.  LINK

[TheBlackCrane]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b083qx9j

In Our Time

If you can access it, the entire archive is available to listen to, last week it was on the Baltic  Crusades.

[italian]

Hi - rookie question - I'm intrigued about this whole period. It seems to have huge potential yet is "fashionably ignored" by most wargamers in the U.K. For a newbie to the period could somebody point me towards, say, half a dozen decent books in English I can start from?

Hi Sparrow,
look for the books of George M. Trevelyan.
I 'm writing about the 3 titled Garibaldi and ... (the first one is about the roman republic (1848/49) the others are about the 1860 campaign in south Italy.
Then you could go on with other books but please note that we are talking of a decades-long period in which were fought more wars.
Regards

Diego

[italwars]

as a wargamer you 'll find very useful those 2 booklets, written by an Historian and Italian wargamer... i copy and paste a paragraph from another forum that refers to them:

"East Riding Miniatures (1 The Woodlands, Goddard Avenue, Hull, HU5 2BW, United Kingdom. Workshop Tel: 01482 445775; After Hours Tel: 01482 445215. <tony@eastridingminiatures.co.uk>; eastridingminiatures.co.uk) sells the following books"

"The Second Italian War of Independence 1859" (£5.00), and "Red Shirts, Garibaldi's Campaign in Southern Italy" (£5.50), by Luigi Casali. These booklets are a must for any wargamer interested in the Italian Wars of Unification. They cover all of the various Italian states and include many black and white drawings of various Italian soldiers. They text describes the uniforms colors. The books also contain a few orders of battle, including the OB for Castelfidardo.

being rare oop books it seems that a  copy could be probably be downloaded here:

http://wave9.ru/books/militaryhistory/39050-red-shirts-garibaldis-campaign-in-southern-italy-1.html