Concept artists required ...

[Knights Of Dice]

I'm not entirely sure (still working my way around LAF) if this is the right place to post this but we are looking for concept artists.

As the article I have linked mentions, being a new miniature company with limited experience in obtaining concept art I'm hoping those with more experience might offer some advice, and/or point me in the direction of some artists (or point them in the direction of us) that we might be able to work with.

Thanks
Viv

[Vermis]

I generally agree with Scurv, only with a few less throbbing forehead-veins.

From what I understand myself (which, admittedly, is less than people who do it for a living) most small a-guy-in-his-garage minis businesses can't really afford to go with professional concept artists on top of mini sculptors, who tend to be underpaid due to the nature and love of the niche 'industry'. (You might find artists willing to take a similar hit, but offering work on spec or for the 'publicity' is generally frowned on) Most of the time the commissioner and the sculptor should be able to hash out the concept between them anyway, even if the latter's better with a wax carver than a pencil. Especially if the concept is a handful of generic Victorian/Pulp dockyard thugs.

That is, if you're not doing the sculpting yourself.

I think this topic could use input from Des Hanley, among other pros, but I'm not sure if they'll say much different.

Oh, and hello.

[nic-e]

I'm not entirely sure (still working my way around LAF) if this is the right place to post this but we are looking for concept artists.

As the article I have linked mentions, being a new miniature company with limited experience in obtaining concept art I'm hoping those with more experience might offer some advice, and/or point me in the direction of some artists (or point them in the direction of us) that we might be able to work with.

Thanks
Viv

I'll give it a crack, give me a couple of days to do some preliminary sketches and i'll send them over

[Barbarian]

If you don't have budget, don't bother.

I can give you my prices in private if you wish.

[Knights Of Dice]

Hehehe, thanks for the replies.

Scurv - I appreciate your brutal honesty ... "Unless you ware willing to pay an hourly rate including paying for all the time making changes ..." - I am, and I do.  I've working that way for many years in another company I run (in a completely different field) and has always worked for me in the past.

Vermis - Hello     I understand what you are saying regarding small casting operators not being able to afford professional concept art as well as sculpting.  For me, I'm fortunate to have another company that allows me some funds to take a few hits whilst I develop contacts and learn 'how things are done'

Barbarian - I stated that I have a limited budget as I've never commissioned art work before and as such have no idea how much my budget for art should be.  I  appreciate your comment and as time moves forward and my knowledge, understanding and contacts improve I'm sure budgets will be easier for me to set.  I'm more than happy for you to send me a PM with pricing etc.

Again, thanks for the feedback - all feedback is valid, the good, the bad and the ugly.

Much appreciated
Cheers
Viv

[Knights Of Dice]

... The only time I have been happy with that sort of thing is when i got away with what worked out to be a little over $1000 an hour to make the changes. That was worth 14 hours of straight work with my producer crapping kittens every 5 minutes to get it done.

LOL ... I can imagine!

I know there is going to be lots to learn, but from what I have found so far it's hard to get just general advice from other small companies (maybe I'm talking to the wrong ones!), and that's fair enough.  People have worked hard and invested time and money to get to where they are ... I'm happy, and prepared to do the same.

All my experience with molding and casting has been (like many others) self taught.  I've burn't through loads of materials learning by trial and error.  Some resources on the net have been useful but other casters have been reluctant to offer advice ... and as I mentioned, happy with that and happy to pay to learn.  And I'm even more happy to pay others to do things I don't really want to learn ... up until my pocket says I really need to learn!   

Cheers

[Knights Of Dice]

my advice is to make a style bible. Fill it with images that you like, explanations etc etc that fit your view of whats what. The more you can give someone to work with the easier nicer and quicker it gets done.

Have clear contracts, anyone in the creative end that knows their stuff will have you on one anyway. It will cover everything from when you pay to what you pay and what you will be charged extra for. Usually you will only get a few changes before they cost if you are lucky. Otherwise you will be paying for every change. It will usually include a pretty tight brief of what they expect to deliver for the money as well.

Have clear communication.

pay on time and dont quibble.

Good advice, I appreciate you taking the time to note a few things down.

[Major_Gilbear]

Scurv makes some excellent points, and I find myself agreeing with him on all counts.

I would also suggest (if you haven't already) that you maybe have a look at other games'/companies' concept art evolution. It doesn't even have to be a relevant theme to what you want really, since the point of the exercise is to establish how the process works to get that "style bible" Scurv mentions. It also helps to set your expectations to how the process can work for different companies.

The Art of Mass Effect (if it's still about for cheaps) is a good example of how much revision certain aspects of design can go through, and the commentary explains why those aspects were so much harder than others to reach a final decision on. The ME series of games also has lots of interviews and other artwork online beyond the artbook, and it is really highlights how much work can go on behind the scenes in concepting to reach a final "look" (even when small errors or "happy mistakes" creep in!).

At a different end of the scale, Keith Lowe of MegaCon Games usually posts up lots of art for their factions' designs, and some factions in particular also go though a lot of revision to get the right look and feel. Being a faaaaar smaller company, their process is more direct and shorter but still has a similar path.

Yet another route is to be totally open and inviting, which is a path that Twilight Miniatures seems to have chosen. Yes, the game's creator has the final say on anything, and I'm certain he's got a few private ideas he keeps up his sleeve, but he's also totally open about a lot of the world he's imagined. People are free to concept and make suggestions, artwork, conversions, etc and submit them. A number of recent releases are the fruits of such invitations, and conversations about the lands, culture, history, and even the life-cycle or biology of the creatures in his world have all lead to new ideas and concepts. Many companies are unwilling to "share" like this however, and are much more dictatorial in their approach. I think that for this to work, you do have to actually be willing and open to new ideas and try to incorporate them.

Finally, once you have a couple of artists and sculptors who understand what you're after and can produce those first few figures the way you want, you will likely find that the following designs are more organic in development. Again, nodding to MegaCon Games, it is clear (to me, as a punter), that Tom Mason's sculpting style lends itself much better to Keith Lowe's art style than a sculptor like Bobby Jackson's IMO, and that they were friends back at university is likely to have helped Tom interpret Keith's intentions and vision from his art.

Anyway, the point of my ramble is to get yourself a clear idea of what to expect, and to determine what you can do to help get to the end of the design road in as timely manner as you require. Such research could also help you understand when something might be worth pursuing further, and when not - important if you're establishing a style/IP and you have limited resources. Basically, learn from others' creative processes!

[Knights Of Dice]

...

Yet another route is to be totally open and inviting, which is a path that Twilight Miniatures seems to have chosen. Yes, the game's creator has the final say on anything, and I'm certain he's got a few private ideas he keeps up his sleeve, but he's also totally open about a lot of the world he's imagined. People are free to concept and make suggestions, artwork, conversions, etc and submit them. A number of recent releases are the fruits of such invitations, and conversations about the lands, culture, history, and even the life-cycle or biology of the creatures in his world have all lead to new ideas and concepts. Many companies are unwilling to "share" like this however, and are much more dictatorial in their approach. I think that for this to work, you do have to actually be willing and open to new ideas and try to incorporate them.

So glad I backed their KS ... my package arrived in the office today actually!  Lovely looking book he has put together.

I've been playing with some concepts I've imagined for many years, and as I move those forward I'd be akin to doing something very similar.  I love his attitude and approach to incorporation.  For me, this hobby is as much about sharing as it is about all the time I spend alone painting my war dollies.

Thank you for your detailed 'ramble', you mentioned some wonderful things to think about.

It'a a wide world, and what I'm taking away from this thread is 'have some idea of where you're going before stepping out the door'.

On a mildly related segue, my wife and I visited family in London last year and we wanted to hire a motorhome and tour around a little.  She wanted to plan the route and know what to expect.  I wanted to throw caution to the wind and see what happened .... we should have planned ahead!!  It was a great trip, but I'd do it differently next time 

As always, I hope you're all keeping well and I appreciate all the feedback.

[Johnno]

I once looked at having "historical" figures made. I spoke with my sculptor of choice and hewanted my vision of their attire and poses etc to help him complete my dream. Alas, I can't draw so what I did was scour the web for pictures and clothing for those images. And pictures of fencing (think swords not chain-link) stances and he was able to understand my vision.
There should be hundreds of images of dockside workers, or period firearms or tools used to brawl with online. Why not create a scrap book if you will of clothing styles, images you like and forward that to your sculptor?

I didn't end up getting mine made as the conversion from CDN $ to £ was horrendous (and still is)