Medieval German or Flemish mercenaries

[flags_of_war]

Guys looking for some help. Im going to build a Lion Rampant force. Im looking to do some sort of German or Flemish mercenary force.

A friend is doing The White Comany and i was wondering if there was any similar famous force from Germany or Flanders? Im going to use the Claymore Casting figures so looking at late 1300 - early 1400.

Im wanting to do some flags and some heraldry etc but im unsure who i would pick?

Thoughts?

[flags_of_war]

Ill take that as no then 

[rumacara]

About any other mercenary companies for that period i dont know but check Front Rank miniatures for a greater variety of minis both full plate armour and partial plate armour on their HYW range.
The new plastic Perry´s agincourt and their metals might be usefull also.

[Modhail]

I'd love to be of assistance, but I'm coming up empty myself as well. 
I've been looking for similar information about Brabancon mercenary groups during the HYW, but so far I've found none of note or notoriety. (Though the mercenaries of Brabant are mentioned in English and French sources, there is depressingly little in-depth information or even mention of them in sources from their area of origin...)

[levied troop]

You could look at the Ordenstaat of the Teutonic Knights.  Apart from the bretheren themselves they frequently hired mercenaries or adventurers, among whom are some familar names: Henry, Duke of Lancaster in 1352; Jean de Grailly, Captal de Buch in 1357; Albert, Duke of Austria in 1377; Henry, Earl of Derby (future Henry IV) in 1390 with around 200 men and, at least three times, Marshall Boucicault of France led troops in the Teutonic armies.

As the names above suggest, French and English commanders were more frequently the leaders of such routier forces, emerging after Poiters and the associated truces of Bordeaux and Brettigny  to generally loot and pillage France and join in any foreign 'crusade' that offered similar looting opportunities in Prussia, Spain or Italy.  Often described as 'English', they usually consisted of English, Gascon, Germans, Navarrese, Spainards, Welsh and Scots.  Indeed the Gascons can be identified in historical documents by the use of 'bourc' in their name, Le Bourc Camus, Le Bourc de Breteuil
etc (bourc meaning bastard - literally and metaphorically  ).  One such company was known as the Compaigne des Batards.  The companies were often only 100-200 strong, banding together only for major conflicts and often splitting up for the majority of the year.  Individual leaders include Sir Robert Knollys, Perrot le Bearnois, Geoffrey Tetenoir, Seguin de Badefol, Sir John Aimery, Sir Silvester Bude, Arnaud de Cervole (known as the Archpriest), Sir Thomas de Grandison, Bernadet de la Salle and Jaques Tiquerel.  John Hawkwood and the White Company was just one of many, who may have joined him or fought against him on the toss of a coin. 

For purely Flemish forces, the White Hoods of Ghent were orginally established as a communal defence force but emerged in 1379 as a more mercenary force under Jan Youens (this might be a Flemish version of Robin Hood) who were described as 'men who loved war more than peace'.  They only seem to have lasted 2 years, being virtually wiped out in 1381, but there's no reason why you can't assume they survived 

The Hussities might be a choice for the early to mid 1400's if you assume that the Taborite sect of the Hussities went wandering off after the death of Jan Hus.

[flags_of_war]

You could look at the Ordenstaat of the Teutonic Knights.  Apart from the bretheren themselves they frequently hired mercenaries or adventurers, among whom are some familar names: Henry, Duke of Lancaster in 1352; Jean de Grailly, Captal de Buch in 1357; Albert, Duke of Austria in 1377; Henry, Earl of Derby (future Henry IV) in 1390 with around 200 men and, at least three times, Marshall Boucicault of France led troops in the Teutonic armies.

As the names above suggest, French and English commanders were more frequently the leaders of such routier forces, emerging after Poiters and the associated truces of Bordeaux and Brettigny  to generally loot and pillage France and join in any foreign 'crusade' that offered similar looting opportunities in Prussia, Spain or Italy.  Often described as 'English', they usually consisted of English, Gascon, Germans, Navarrese, Spainards, Welsh and Scots.  Indeed the Gascons can be identified in historical documents by the use of 'bourc' in their name, Le Bourc Camus, Le Bourc de Breteuil
etc (bourc meaning bastard - literally and metaphorically  ).  One such company was known as the Compaigne des Batards.  The companies were often only 100-200 strong, banding together only for major conflicts and often splitting up for the majority of the year.  Individual leaders include Sir Robert Knollys, Perrot le Bearnois, Geoffrey Tetenoir, Seguin de Badefol, Sir John Aimery, Sir Silvester Bude, Arnaud de Cervole (known as the Archpriest), Sir Thomas de Grandison, Bernadet de la Salle and Jaques Tiquerel.  John Hawkwood and the White Company was just one of many, who may have joined him or fought against him on the toss of a coin. 

For purely Flemish forces, the White Hoods of Ghent were orginally established as a communal defence force but emerged in 1379 as a more mercenary force under Jan Youens (this might be a Flemish version of Robin Hood) who were described as 'men who loved war more than peace'.  They only seem to have lasted 2 years, being virtually wiped out in 1381, but there's no reason why you can't assume they survived 

The Hussities might be a choice for the early to mid 1400's if you assume that the Taborite sect of the Hussities went wandering off after the death of Jan Hus.

Thank you. mate. Now this is what i was looking for as this gives me something to go an look for. I have a few troops already painted in mostly Yellow and Black and i thinking that i might do Teutonic Knights and they guys can be some mercs from Saxony or something. This will allow me to do other troops to go with them.

[commissarmoody]

Just remember to take pictures to share with us. 

[NurgleHH]

I don't know if you know some german, but here is a link:

http://www.kriegsreisende.de/mittelalter.htm

[flags_of_war]

I don't know if you know some german, but here is a link:

http://www.kriegsreisende.de/mittelalter.htm

Cheers mate. Given my love for your dear City is there any infamous Knights or Families that i could look at doing a Retinue for from Hamburg or did they stick mostly to the sea.

[Ray Earle]

Great thread. Looking to do something similar using the new Perries set, by using the hounskull helmets, keeping the men at arms closer to late 1300's.

Apart from Hawkwood I wasn't getting very far though.

[Jack]

Ian,
Like most replies I don't know of any other Mercenary companies. However what about some of the Komtura of the Teutonics.

Background could be along the lines of Free Company hired by Henry and transplanted to the Baltic where they run riot and have to be reigned in by Komtura troops. Historically there were a few skirmishes between Crusading troops from various countries.

There are some pics for Komtura at this website which may give you ideas they also have some German/Luxemburg coats of arms for the HYW.

http://www.krigsspil.dk/download/download_3.html

[flags_of_war]

Ian,
Like most replies I don't know of any other Mercenary companies. However what about some of the Komtura of the Teutonics.

Background could be along the lines of Free Company hired by Henry and transplanted to the Baltic where they run riot and have to be reigned in by Komtura troops. Historically there were a few skirmishes between Crusading troops from various countries.

There are some pics for Komtura at this website which may give you ideas they also have some German/Luxemburg coats of arms for the HYW.

http://www.krigsspil.dk/download/download_3.html

Cheers Jack. As David was doing Teutonics i wanted to do something different and as Medieval is not my period i don't have a clue. Ive done a load of Archers and a Load of Bill men i wanted to use for my Baratheons (i still will) and they are all Yellow and Black. So this drew me to Flemish or some other German state that may use these colours.

Almost tempted to make something up like Willem of Brugge and his band of Bastards. Various Yellow and Black vests and some Flemish flags

[Mad Doc Morris]

The employment of mercenaries in the Holy Roman Empire was very limited. Political and social conditions differed a lot from France and Italy, and feudal arrays were readily available up to the later 15th century. Occasionally these were bolstered by random people willing to take up arms for money. But we have no clue if and how these were organised, even if they might appear as entities at times – like the Brabaçons, a term originally (about the 12th century) used for soldiers from Brabant but soon to include all sorts of people recruited 'on the border' or 'abroad'. Which could be beyond the next hill, of course.

Thus, any kind of uniformed 'mercenary company' would appear ahistorical anyway, at least in a (Imperial) German context. Troops organised by urban communities – not necessarily citizens but often individually paid substitutes – were probably among the first to wear some kind of uniformed livery, i.e. distinctly coloured vests or jackets over their ordinary cloths and armour. Again, only very late, about mid to late 15th century, we get a clue what these may have looked like. Yet most people would stick to just badges to show their allegiance.

In essence, if you got a 'fantasy' force at hand, just use it as is and call it whatever you like. Most likely there won't be a ready-made crossover, and it's always better and much easier not to force history to fit one's imagination.

[Arlequín]

There were a lot of mercenary companies around, but usually shortlived and largely unknown to history. Effectively every captain in every army was a mercenary leader of sorts, as by the mid-14th Century onwards contracts between kings and captains merely stipulated the number of men they were to raise, who were usually professional soldiers, or 'new men of war' in search of adventure.

Making up your own is probably both the easiest and possibly the most accurate option truth told. I would imagine (although I don't know for certain) that by and large there might be little to distinguish them as a company, save perhaps some simple field sign. 'Knights' would of course have their coats of arms, but the rank and file not so much. It is of course possible that a captain might purchase a batch of cloth to sell to his men for clothing, which might be your excuse for representing a degree of uniformity within them.

[whiskey priest]

I had a quick read but I can't see that anybody has mentioned Werner Von Urslingen who was the first leader of the the 'Grand Company' of mercenaries in italy. It did fight against the White Company (probably after Werner's death and before Hawkwood took on the Leadership of the White Company) and he's quite a colourful character.
I think his arms are on the right

After Werner retired the Grand company were led by Fra' Moriale, Giovanni Moriale d'Albarno, A french ex-hospitaller followed by another german Konrad von Landau who was the leader of the grand company when they were defeated by the white company at Canturino.