*
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
March 28, 2024, 01:58:56 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Donate

We Appreciate Your Support

Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 1686488
  • Total Topics: 118102
  • Online Today: 857
  • Online Ever: 2235
  • (October 29, 2023, 12:32:45 AM)
Users Online

Recent

Author Topic: Stoke Field 1487  (Read 47465 times)

Offline Stuart

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 857
    • Army Royal
Re: Stoke Field 1487
« Reply #30 on: March 08, 2015, 06:21:04 PM »
Excellent job, I really like the banners and liveried men. If you wouldn't mind messaging me the banner I'd very much appreciate it.

Stuart

Offline Captain Blood

  • Global Moderator
  • Elder God
  • Posts: 19305
Re: Stoke Field 1487
« Reply #31 on: March 08, 2015, 06:27:33 PM »
Some nice poses there again. Coming on a treat  :)

Offline Miantanomo

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 231
  • Ahhh, Crap.
Re: Stoke Field 1487
« Reply #32 on: March 08, 2015, 10:32:23 PM »
What a great project! Perry's is sweet as heck, huh?  :)
"If you would take a man's life, you owe it to him to look into his eyes and hear his final words. And if you cannot bear to do that, then perhaps the man does not deserve to die."
-Eddard Stark

Offline Gangleri

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 342
Re: Stoke Field 1487
« Reply #33 on: March 11, 2015, 08:19:14 PM »
Thanks to all for the encouraging comments!

I'd like to follow you blog - but not sure if the have the function switched on to allow followers to get your updates - if you're Ok with that of course?
Otherwise I'll keep track on here.

I seem to be having some difficulty with enabling followers - keep thinking I've got it set up, but it never seems to work.  Is this the feature that requires Google+?



If you wouldn't mind messaging me the banner I'd very much appreciate it.

Certainly :)  Do PMs permit attachments?  Or should I upload to photobucket and then send links?

Currently working on Lincoln and his retainers, who should be finished within a few days.

Also, can anyone recommend a manufacturer of round bases for command stands?  I was looking at Renedra, but at 1.5mm the bases are a little thin for my taste.

Now what is this whole life of mortals but a sort of comedy, in which the various actors, disguised by various costumes and masks, walk on and play each one his part, until the manager waves them off the stage?

http://stokefield.blogspot.com/

http://wellrallyonceagain.blogspot.com/

Offline Slayer

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 730
Re: Stoke Field 1487
« Reply #34 on: March 11, 2015, 09:21:09 PM »
warbases?
the early bird may get the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese

Offline janner

  • Scatterbrained Genius
  • Posts: 2877
  • Laughing Cavalier
Re: Stoke Field 1487
« Reply #35 on: March 12, 2015, 07:00:34 AM »
So I wonder what troops did come from Ireland? Thomas Fitzgerald was Chancellor of Ireland, so hardly an insignificant person. The 'English Pale' round Dublin was Set up like an English county (including the requirements to practice archery etc), while Fitzgerald's estates were in Kildare. I sort of imagine him bringing over Irish bows and bills, but I cant see him bringing Kerns... there were plenty of low status Englishmen available, so why hire ships to bring over even more low-status Irishmen?

Discuss.  ;)  

Are you using bills as shorthand for close combat foot in general?

Offline Arlequín

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 6218
  • Culpame de la Bossa Nova...
Re: Stoke Field 1487
« Reply #36 on: March 12, 2015, 07:31:14 AM »
Are you using bills as shorthand for close combat foot in general?

No, just the 'English-Irish' ones from the Pale itself, obviously the Anglo-Irish and Irish areas are a different story altogether and something I know very little about. As chancellor he could raise men from the Pale, but there were still the family holdings from which 'native' troops could be raised too.

Drawing a comparison (dangerous I know) but in the ECW, the 'Irish Army' bought over by the Royalists had originally been recruited in England like any other expeditionary force. While Irishmen had been recruited to fill places left by death and disease, the regiments were still largely composed of Englishmen - yet were stated as being 'Irish' in the public perception. Comments about prisoners being sifted and only 'men found to be Irish' being summarily hung, got me thinking. 

So are we talking about just actual 'traditional' Irish types being bought over, or are we talking about conventional English-style "Irish" troops, or a mix of both? 

Offline Atheling

  • Elder God
  • Posts: 11905
    • Just Add Water Wargaming Blog
Re: Stoke Field 1487
« Reply #37 on: March 12, 2015, 07:48:58 AM »


So are we talking about just actual 'traditional' Irish types being bought over, or are we talking about conventional English-style "Irish" troops, or a mix of both? 

I'd hazard a mix of both. just going on the contemporary evidence that the Irish troops suffered very heavily under Oxford's archers due to lack of armours. That to me suggests that there may well have been a number of traditional Irish troops on the battlefield that day. Of course this is conjecture, but conjecture based on evidence.

I'd dig out the source if my books were with me!

Darrell.

Offline janner

  • Scatterbrained Genius
  • Posts: 2877
  • Laughing Cavalier
Re: Stoke Field 1487
« Reply #38 on: March 12, 2015, 09:29:55 AM »
I may have missed it in the eyewitness accounts, but is there anything to support their being armed with bills?


Offline Atheling

  • Elder God
  • Posts: 11905
    • Just Add Water Wargaming Blog
Re: Stoke Field 1487
« Reply #39 on: March 12, 2015, 09:36:23 AM »
I may have missed it in the eyewitness accounts, but is there anything to support their being armed with bills?



I really can't help you with direct contemporary sources  at present as almost my entire book collection is in my ex's garage....  :'(.

Hopefully soon!

Darrell.

Offline janner

  • Scatterbrained Genius
  • Posts: 2877
  • Laughing Cavalier
Re: Stoke Field 1487
« Reply #40 on: March 12, 2015, 09:42:23 AM »
Time for a farmer's daughter op, i.e. dawn raid?  :D

Offline Atheling

  • Elder God
  • Posts: 11905
    • Just Add Water Wargaming Blog
Re: Stoke Field 1487
« Reply #41 on: March 12, 2015, 09:50:36 AM »
Time for a farmer's daughter op, i.e. dawn raid?  :D

You call in the airstrike  lol.

Darrell.

Offline steders

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 657
Re: Stoke Field 1487
« Reply #42 on: March 12, 2015, 04:48:48 PM »
Nice stuff! I love your flags. Are they hand painted?

Offline Atheling

  • Elder God
  • Posts: 11905
    • Just Add Water Wargaming Blog
Re: Stoke Field 1487
« Reply #43 on: March 12, 2015, 04:55:44 PM »
Going off slightly at a tangent but the latest WI has a good article on WoR equipment and retinues for Lion Rampant.

I'm going to use them to fight the Battle of Ferrybridge- prequel to Towton.

All I need now is a company to produce fine quality 40mm WoR/Cousins War mini's as the game would look much better in that scale (or 54mm!!  8) )..... oh Michael.....oh Alan..... do you hear me?  :)

Darrell.

Offline Arlequín

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 6218
  • Culpame de la Bossa Nova...
Re: Stoke Field 1487
« Reply #44 on: March 12, 2015, 07:57:05 PM »
I may have missed it in the eyewitness accounts, but is there anything to support their being armed with bills?

As far as I know, "And there was slain of English, Dutch, and Irishmen 4,000" by 'the Herald' is pretty much it. Vergil adds barely any more, but he was writing in c.1512.

The Dublin Pale was organised militarily the same as any English shire and a large number of English colonists were brought in and encouraged to build 'tower houses' and organise local military forces (just like the Welsh Marches)... it wasn't called the English Pale for nothing.

Warbeck's Irish were recruited from Dublin, but what that means in terms of who and what were recruited, I couldn't say. The English would be bows and bills... the Irish whatever they carried/wore, which I have no idea of.

Going off slightly at a tangent but the latest WI has a good article on WoR equipment and retinues for Lion Rampant.

I'll have to get hold of that somehow.  :?
« Last Edit: March 12, 2015, 07:59:58 PM by Arlequín »

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
1 Replies
1595 Views
Last post July 16, 2012, 07:55:40 AM
by joroas
4 Replies
1442 Views
Last post June 04, 2013, 07:31:15 AM
by gringo
3 Replies
3121 Views
Last post August 17, 2013, 09:50:35 AM
by Atheling
218 Replies
26316 Views
Last post April 27, 2022, 11:39:39 AM
by Arcane Steve
0 Replies
560 Views
Last post September 30, 2020, 09:04:32 AM
by Norm