Another passenger for the Lion Rampant bandwagon

[Atheling]

They're really great 

It's certainly right that lowly rank and file soldiers of the period would not have had the luxury of getting their washing done very often therefore your palette is entirely justified- and looks bloody great too!

Darrell.

[Nord]

Thanks for all the feedback guys, I didn't realise WotR was so popular.

On the painting, much of what I do is a basecoat, followed by glazing, and maybe a little stippling here and there for mucky bits. I have tried to paint an authentic palette, based not on artwork (contemporary or modern), but on youtube videos of re-enactments. There's a wide variety of colours in these and some are really intense, I wonder how they would have got such vibrant hues. Any textiles/dyes experts in here care to comment? I am particularly curious on what kind of white they would have achieved with the dyes of the time.

Also, if you watch any of these vids, it's amazing the variety of colours and uniforms, you really get an idea of the confusion there must have been on the battlefield, that's before anybody switched allegiances. I get a better understanding of why many battles seemed to be two long lines facing each other - it was simply to ensure you knew who was friend and who was foe perhaps. Smaller raids I guess would have been more localised and personal and the combatants recognised each other by sight and knew which not to attack? As a gamer this is all good because if, at any time, I want to swap allegiance, it's pretty easy to do.

[Vermis]

There's a wide variety of colours in these and some are really intense, I wonder how they would have got such vibrant hues. Any textiles/dyes experts in here care to comment?

I'm about as far from one as you might get, but I do remember a wee Viking reenactment day over here, last year. (Clontarf and all that) One of the tents around the main field showed off wool-spinning and dying, with examples of colours the lady looking after the exhibit had dyed herself, from natural, unexotic sources - mostly specific wild plants. The variety and some of the hues were pretty impressive; although they did stop short of bright red and suchlike.
I wonder if I still have the photo around here.

[Atheling]

Thanks for all the feedback guys, I didn't realise WotR was so popular.

On the painting, much of what I do is a basecoat, followed by glazing, and maybe a little stippling here and there for mucky bits. I have tried to paint an authentic palette, based not on artwork (contemporary or modern), but on youtube videos of re-enactments. There's a wide variety of colours in these and some are really intense, I wonder how they would have got such vibrant hues. Any textiles/dyes experts in here care to comment? I am particularly curious on what kind of white they would have achieved with the dyes of the time.

Also, if you watch any of these vids, it's amazing the variety of colours and uniforms, you really get an idea of the confusion there must have been on the battlefield, that's before anybody switched allegiances. I get a better understanding of why many battles seemed to be two long lines facing each other - it was simply to ensure you knew who was friend and who was foe perhaps. Smaller raids I guess would have been more localised and personal and the combatants recognised each other by sight and knew which not to attack? As a gamer this is all good because if, at any time, I want to swap allegiance, it's pretty easy to do.

Would you care to do a step-bystep of what colours you chose and how you muted them down? I'm sure a lot of folk would be very interested, including me? 

[Doomsdave]

These are fantastic!  They are consistent enough to look like a unit but the color choices on the clothing is varied enough to look like individual poor archers.  I second the request for some instruction on how you achieved the affect. 

[pocoloco]

Beautiful archers! 

Good colours could be gotten from plant and mineral sources as well.

Your average commener would not have afforded to wear the latest fashion items and it was customary to inherit clothes so for a common man the muted colours and wear and tear here and there are quite in place. But for those who had the money and/or means to get new clothes also showed their wealth. And if they equipped their retainers, then those would/could sport more colourful clothing pieces as well.

[Nord]

I remember talking to a viking at jorvik centre. He was dressed in viking garb and I was asking if the colours were authentic. He said they did use dyes and fixers from the era as much as possible, though they could never be sure they used the same thing in the fixers. The main point was that the dye would fade very quickly from the garments, so if you want authentic looking vikings, you should paint them in pink! Red dye quickly faded to a rose/dark pink colour. Dare I say it, this has coloured my attitude to palette ever since. 

On the step by step, will see what I can do. Already made a start on the billmen but not got too far, so will try to take some pics as I go along. Then you will see just how cunningly simple my "technique" is. It really is mostly base coating and glazing.

[Arlequín]

Well this thread has progressed from a mere show and tell (a very good one mind), to an interesting and informative discussion on Medieval colours and dyes... it just gets better with each post (except this one  ).

[Captain Blood]

I hold firmly to the revisionist theory of the last few years: that the medieval world was not all grey stone, undyed wool and dismal grunge, but actually highly colourful. Castles were rendered and brightly painted on the outside and painted in bright colours on the inside with colourful and ornate decoration. Wealthy nobles would have access to the best fabrics, dyes and craftspeople, to clothe them and their entourages in a wardrobe every bit as colourful as today's.
I say this, not just because I happen to like painting all my figures in bright, bold colours (although I do ), but because I see no reason to believe this version of history isn't true. We all seem able to happily accept gorgeous visions of the court of Henry VIII, and all the grandly furnished, decorated houses, and brightly clothed households of the nobility of the day. That's in, what, the 1530s? Is it that hard to believe that interior design and textile colouring techniques would have been so very different in, say, the mid-1400s? Or even the late 1300s?

That said, I like a unit of grungy-looking commoners as much as the next man, and yours are exceptionally nice Nord 
Still looking forward to seeing what you do with the more upper class types.
  

[Vermis]

I wonder if I still have the photo around here.

Here we go. Click to embiggen.



Like I say, some of the colours achieved were pretty impressive, especially the deep blue, red and yellow. Trouble is I can't remember what any of the colorants were (I can only remember onion skins for an orangey-brown one!), or how readily available the brighter ones were to early-medieval north-western europe. But in any case it inspired me to be a wee bit more adventurous with any DA minis I paint in future.

[Arlequín]

I hold firmly to the revisionist theory of the last few years: that the medieval world was not all grey stone, undyed wool and dismal grunge, but actually highly colourful. Castles were rendered and brightly painted on the outside and painted in bright colours on the inside with colourful and ornate decoration. Wealthy nobles would have access to the best fabrics, dyes and craftspeople, to clothe them and their entourages in a wardrobe every bit as colourful as today's.  

Of course, you can guarantee that freshly issued livery coats, or indeed clothing worn by 'the well to do' and the members of households were indeed very bright in colour and kept that colour. They were almost certainly replaced once they began to look shabby too, if nothing else Medieval folk were no less inclined to look their best than we are today and like most 'companies' they had a dress code for their employees.

The common working man was somewhat less able to present the same image however. You can also guarantee that if some noble needed to buy liveries for a few hundred (or thousand in some cases) men for a period of a few weeks, he would not push the boat out too far. In the 1450s Buckingham didn't even bother with jackets and just bought several thousand 'bends' (a sort of flat shoulder sash) for his ground-pounders to wear over their own clothes.

You get what you pay for however and while the more prestigious members of a contingent probably still looked 'fabulous' a few weeks into a campaign, the rank and file were somewhat less so as time went by. At what point someone's livery colours changed from red and white to dark pink and light grey/'yuck' seems to be the case in point.
 

[Captain Blood]

Pink and grey is a classic and attractive colour combination, of course. So all's well that ends well 

[Eric the Shed]

Pink and grey is a classic and attractive colour combination, of course. So all's well that ends well 

As can seen by Captain Bloods 'pink' trousers...although I think they might have been red sometime ago

[steders]

They are lovely pjs, very nice

[EndTransmission]

The main point was that the dye would fade very quickly from the garments, so if you want authentic looking vikings, you should paint them in pink! Red dye quickly faded to a rose/dark pink colour. Dare I say it, this has coloured my attitude to palette ever since. 

Not all colours faded. Some of the mordants (fixatives) when under certain conditions would, over time, actually darken the colours. Greens were one of these I think.