Starfleet 1899 - Victorian space fleets

[Ironclad Paul]

Hi,  way back in 1996 I was thinking that the universe of space 1889 should have been expanded onwards in time, so instead of waiting I pushed it on into my own imaginary scenario.  I was picturing that by 1899 and the end of the Victorian era that the nations of earth would be building fleets of ether flying battleships/armoured cruisers/light cruisers/scout cruisers/torpedo boats in a similar arms race to that on earth.    These fleets would be ironclads with steel armour and conventional guns, powered by the usual solar boiler and reaction drive astern.  instead of oil fuel they would carry water (for the boiler) and be coloured by nation for recognition in the gloom of space. (Black ships just wouldnt be cricket !)
  This developed apace and my good friend Dave egged me on in the usual fashion to the point where we were both making ships in our own mini arms race. I did British/German and some minor nations, Dave did French/Spanish/Italian and austro-hungarian. The ships are made from foam and are basically historical designs cut in half, then the stern is glued underneath projecting forward and a solar propeller added to the cut square stern. It did seem to work to my mind and I did some drawings to illustrate this.
  The rules we used to use were a modified version of first edition full thrust and for a while it was good. we eventually tired after a year or so, and a few big campaigns, and the rules went the way of the dodo.   I never had any intentions of publishing the rules as they were a variant of others, but I couldnt resist making my own 'mock' version and so here are a few pages of pictures which were to have graced the pages.  (guess the nations and ships they come from...quiz question... the answers are in the names for those non ship spotters)
I did get bored with the (starfleet 1899/space 1899) title and did briefly re-name them 'Iron stars' in 1997 but that was at the end of our interest with it all and though I occasionally get them out for the odd game, generally they have been overtaken by events.   So, for posterity, here they are for the first time....and the last time 

Sizewise the biggest ones are about 10cm/4", scalewise about 1/1200ish.  there was variable height stands in the early days but that soon was axed.
anyway, hope it inspires some others to go try out their own version of victorian space battles.

[Bergil]

Bravo! Right up my street this sort of thing.

I really admire the dedication in putting together miniatures and artwork for the mock rules.

[Duke Donald]

The fleets look amazing!

[Bullshott]

Splendid stuff. Where did you source/how did you make the vessels?

[Damas]

Bravo!  I am also interested in a 'how to' explanation.

[The_Beast]

...
I never had any intentions of publishing the rules as they were a variant of others

Understandable, especially as Jon was still selling his books at that point. Still, you'll admit a lot of people have been making a lot of versions with his encouragement, and an explanation of your variant would just make him smile.

I'll continue to fiddle with such in my head; even if it never sees play, it's been an enjoyable exercise.

we eventually tired after a year or so, and a few big campaigns, and the rules went the way of the dodo...

The way of most such, but 'a year or so' is a run of which to be proud. Do so!

Splendid stuff. Where did you source/how did you make the vessels?

If you've seen his other work, you'll know he tends toward very basic materials for scratchbuilding. I'm such a piker myself, actually using shapes already found in model kit bombs and rockets...  

Doug

Edit: Notice the pieces, WIP and completed 'nef, at the bottom of this image. If I could cut and carve like that...

[Ironclad Paul]

Hi, much as I would like to do a step by step construction video I'm too busy with other projects and once you start a diversion its too easy to lose your place.  But here are a few more pictures to illustrate some of the ideas involved here.

The ships are made by carving out a rough 1/1200 scale waterline version of the real ship you intend to model (from Foam in my ships), then once the hull and some details are added you need to cut it in 2 pieces!  make sure the cut is about 1/3 of the length from the bow.  then glue the rear (longer) end underneath the front, so the upside down stern sticks out in front now.   this way you have top deck guns and bottom deck guns, for firing up and down.
Then a new rear end is added with a suitable ether propellor style dish, I added cotton wool as the 'glow' and trail from the engine, but after a while its a bit limp I suppose.   in the rules nobody could fire aft (as in full thrust) so it just adds some interest to the stern.

Then you can add gun barrels and smaller turrets as per the real ship, or whatever you fancy.    I left the funnels as the original ships but to my mind they were not funnels any more but tanks full of water, frozen due to being outside the hull, therefore reducing sloshing effects etc, until needed for the engine.

I attach a picture of a fleet which was made by a friend who hadnt made models before, these are white and buff American ships. They are somewhat simpler than the ones me and Dave made but quite workmanlike and useable and they show what can be achieved with some effort and willpower. They are made entirely from Balsa and small dowel/cocktail sticks. (cheers Nik! - he gave me them when he emigrated, nice chap) though I keep getting the urge to add more detail to them it probably wont ever happen.

At the top of the mast on most ships (and hardly noticeable) is a piece of corrugated cardboard forming a little 'tube'.  this is used to insert the rod which is glued to the plastic peg used for the height stands.   as you see in the height stand pictures, the 3 inch hex card bottom has a piece of lead on it, then a small block of wood with a hole for a 6mm dowel.  The 6mm dowel has height levels painted on and the ships can be easily slipped up and down the pole during movement.
The beauty of the 'peg' method is that two ships can share the same pole quickly and easily, if needed temporarily, as you can see.

Most of the ships had a matchstick added underneath, retrospectively, to put them on the later 'low level' bases I use now. (still never got round to painting that pesky match yet on most ships, tsk!)

There is a picture showing the next stage of this background which was to be spacefleet 1939, ie Alt/ww2.  I wont go into it here but I will say that the stripey ship is made from the revell 1/1200 scale Bismark, cut up using the same process above. Probably need bigger hexes for that period though, this game was played originally on 3 inch hexes, which cover most situations and ship sizes.

In the scan of a typical game sheet you can see on the drawings of the ships (and maybe how they are made from a real ship) the upper and lower decks of the ships guns, from memory only upper deck guns could fire upwards, only lower guns could fire downwards, but both decks could fire at a target at the same 'height'.    A cute idea maybe, but the end result (on reflection) was that it just slowed the game down by a factor of half.   so later games didnt use the height stands at all.

The last picture shows a British domed colony with docked ships, looks nice and cosy inside and maybe they're playing cricket !

anyway, hope you get an idea now of how they are made, and how they were used.  hope its of some use..

[von Lucky]

Love that British domed colony!

[Bullshott]

Love that British domed colony!

I'll second that!

I do like the 3-dimensional design concept of building a ship then cutting it in to to use the stern section as the underside of the starship, giving a gun deck on the underside of the ship. Brilliant

[OSHIROmodels]

I have such fond memories of playing with these 

I even have the original rules set and ship charts/cards 

You know I'm going to have to start making some now don't you 

cheers

James

[Ironclad Paul]

James, I'm so glad you still have fond memories of those games and campaigns. We certainly went to town with it at the time but it wouldn't have been half the game it was without all the great players we had too! So thanks for being one of those great players!
  If you do make some ships in this way I'm sure they will be fantastic and I hope you have a bit more (nostalgic) fun with the old game, maybe there is some mileage left in it yet.

Now you can make the Japanese Space Navy!   I never did get round to that nations spaceships. 
 ' 1st class Space Battleship Mikasa' has a certain ring to it 

Never Made the Russians either....hmmm...there's an idea...hmm
Cheers,
Paul

[OSHIROmodels]

Round ones for the Russians 

I never even knew about a real Japanese fleet back when we're playing this (let alone a VSF one), even though my mam grew up in Mikasa street on Walney 

I'll dig the rules out and see if our rules guru likes them 

cheers

James

[Ironclad Paul]

James, I don't think your rules Guru will like them, but you don't know till you look I suppose.

haven't used them myself for an age and don't even like them now. They were based on full thrust and I gave up on all that 15+ years ago too.  Things have moved on a lot since then, but it's one of those stages you go through maybe, and there are always good and bad points to draw from every rules experience.   I have a vivid memory of a certain rules experience in one of your games.. You know the one!   . One of the funniest and most memorable games ever. Happy days.

I thought of posting my round Russian 1/600 warships, but this doesn't seem to be a naval forum much so probably won't bother.

Look forward to seeing more of your Flying ships though!

Cheers
Paul

[OSHIROmodels]

I still quite like the Full Thrust system (ticking all those boxes works for me  ) but didn't you move on to DTS?

Spiky Mallet!

 

Post the Russian ships, there's always interest for that sort of thing 

Need to finish my gaming room (I can actually call it that now) first and then I think I'll be making some aether ships 

Possibly 1:1000 or 1:1200, if 1:1000 it'll make the 28mm Mikasa about 75mm which is quite respectable 

cheers

James

[The_Beast]

I still quite like the Full Thrust system (ticking all those boxes works for me   ) but didn't you move on to DTS?

I'm an FT fanboy, but do like them for adaptability; plenty of parts I'll drop or bend to please me whim-of-the-moment. DTS?

Post the Russian ships, there's always interest for that sort of thing  
...

Absolutely! Some of the best posts here are ship or flying ship projects!

Doug