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Author Topic: Materials for making figures  (Read 2086 times)

Offline Mick_in_Switzerland

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Materials for making figures
« on: March 21, 2015, 10:22:03 AM »
I would like to know more about the materials used to make figures.  
I trained as an engineer (many years ago) and I want to find out exactly what is used.

Hard Polystyrene
Injection moulded Airfix, Revell and Tamiya kits and also plastic wargames figures such as Perry miniatures are polystyrene.
Does anybody know what grades are used?  Does the material contain chalk or other fillers to help painting?

Polyethylene
Traditional injection moulded 20mm or 1/72 plastic figures are polythene (polyethylene).  
This is cheap and common but soft and bendy and prone to flash.

White Metal
In the past, white metal was lead and tin but I think this is no longer used.
As far as I understand most figures are lead free pewter which  I think is tin and antimony.
Can anybody add more detail?

Reaper Bones
This is a mystery.  The material feels like PVC that was used for toys when I was a kid.  However it has very little smell so I don't think it is PVC.
I think it is some form of TPE (Thermoplastic Elastomer) but I have no idea which one.
I have just received a lot of Reaper Bones from their Kickstarter and the material is quite nice to use.
Does anybody know what it is?

Resin
There are a lot of resins but I dont understand what they are.
As far as I understand most are thermoset polyesters but some usable in spincast machines so may be a thermoplastic.  
Finecast is very brittle and I avoid it. Mantic and Spectre have polymer plastics that appears to be tougher and slightly flexible.
Can anybody explain what they are?

Thanks

Mick
« Last Edit: March 21, 2015, 10:27:29 AM by Mick_in_Switzerland »

Offline Connectamabob

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Re: Materials for making figures
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2015, 02:02:48 AM »
Hard Polystyrene
Does anybody know what grades are used?  Does the material contain chalk or other fillers to help painting?

Dunno about grades. Fairly sure there's no fillers used (the idea of chalk or suchlike seems very strange to me, and seems like it'd have a very negative effect on the plastic's durability). Different kit makes do use different formulas of some kind though, as hardness and flexibility among other things varies from manufacturer to manufacturer and sometimes from kit to kit.

Paintabilty of polystyrene is usually quite good regardless, as long as it's been cleaned of mold releases and skin oils. Only exception I've found is Plastruct's scratchbuilding stock, which is actually quasi-ABS formulated for re-usability, so it's actually deliberately designed to reject glue and paint to a degree.

Evergreen kind of owns the scratchbuilding stock market, and their stuff is plain white and takes glue and paint very well.

Clear polystyrene tends to be a lot more brittle than white or other opaque colors. I don't think that's the dye though: I think it may be something about the molecular structure that enables it to be clear that does it. Though I have on rare ocassion seen kits with clear parts that didn't have the typical brittleness (The Jupiter 2 kit from the 1990's Lost in Space move had clear plastic that was delightful to work with) , so I know it's possible to formulate clear styrene so it isn't brittle, but I don't know why that isn't common.

Polyethylene
Traditional injection moulded 20mm or 1/72 plastic figures are polythene (polyethylene).  
This is cheap and common but soft and bendy and prone to flash.

Also a pig to glue and paint, due to it's waxy everything-phobic surface. I tend to avoid it when at all possible.

Reaper Bones
This is a mystery.  The material feels like PVC that was used for toys when I was a kid.  However it has very little smell so I don't think it is PVC.
I think it is some form of TPE (Thermoplastic Elastomer) but I have no idea which one.
I have just received a lot of Reaper Bones from their Kickstarter and the material is quite nice to use.
Does anybody know what it is?[/i]

My understanding is it is a thermoplastic vinyl of some kind. Not all Vinyls are PVC, and not all PVC formulations have a smell, so that's not really an indicator.

My experiences with Reaper Bones have not been as encouraging. Stuff I received was unusably bendy and did not scrape or file well, so seams were a a big problem. Testimonials I've read have varied so wildly that I strongly suspect they have manufacturing consistency issues.

Resin
There are a lot of resins but I dont understand what they are.
As far as I understand most are thermoset polyesters but some usable in spincast machines so may be a thermoplastic.  
Finecast is very brittle and I avoid it. Mantic and Spectre have polymer plastics that appears to be tougher and slightly flexible.
Can anybody explain what they are?

Polyurethane resins, actually, not polyester. Polyester resins are only used by dire cheapskate manufacturers and recasters. They are brittle, have poor dimensional stability, and are more caustic to silicone molds, so although they are cheap, they are not considered desirable.

The difference between the Mantic/Spector castings and others you may have bought is most likely just one of them using a different formula of polyurethane from a different supplier. There are numerous suppliers/makes of polyurethane casting resins on every continent, and they are not all equal. When getting started in resin casting, it pays to test out resins from different manufacturers/suppliers to find the best for your application, but many don't do that and just get whatever's cheapest or easiest, so a lot of resin stuff, especially in the gaming mini market, uses mediocre resin.

I dunno what "finecast" was specifically, but if their marketing was to be believed it was something oddball specifically formulated for GW. The examples I've seen were so horribly cast, full of flash, bubbles, short runs, and peppered with torn bits of mold rubber, that it kinda doesn't matter what the resin was, as it was clear someone must have "hired" their 13 year old nephew to do the casting instead of getting, well, ANYONE who even had the SLIGHTEST resin casting knowledge/experience. Even a halfway intelligent beginner would have been able to avoid doing such a bad job on their very first try, so I'm not inclined to credit any apologetics on GW's behalf. Anyone who's done any resin casting could immediately tell there was a truly epic level of not-giving-a-s*** going on there.

Given that, I find it hard to believe they actually spent any time or money testing resins or having something specifically formulated for them. Unless there was similarly epic levels of right-hand-not-knowing-what-the-left is-doing involved, it seems most likely they just bought something dirt cheap off the shelf, and the whole "finecast" story was pure marketing BS.

Thermoplastics are rare on the garage kit and small manufacturer level, as they usually require injection molding, which is EXTREMELY costly and so only profitable on a mass-market scale. They often require much greater casting pressures than metal or resin, so spin casting and/or rubber molds isn't really a thing with them.
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Offline Mick_in_Switzerland

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Re: Materials for making figures
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2015, 10:46:39 AM »
Thank-you very much.  That is a really helpful insight.

Offline black hat miniatures

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Re: Materials for making figures
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2015, 11:09:53 AM »


White Metal
In the past, white metal was lead and tin but I think this is no longer used.
As far as I understand most figures are lead free pewter which  I think is tin and antimony.
Can anybody add more detail?


A lot of us are still using white metal for figure casting - it varies from about 50% lead/tin mix to 10% lead.  It has better flow properties and is less brittle than a lead free material.

It is obviously also slightly cheaper as it contains less tin.

The myth about lead-free comes from the lead scare of the 1990s when a New York Senator tried to get lead banned from toy soldiers - he failed...

Mike

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Online Silent Invader

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Re: Materials for making figures
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2015, 11:14:51 AM »
The Tiranti website has quite a useful insight into some of the casting alloys that are available.

http://www.tiranti.co.uk/EdgeImpactShop/subcategory.php?Subcategory=63&Content=White+Metal+%2F+Tin+Alloys+

Unless a figure is explicitly stated as being lead-free you'd be safer to assume that the mix includes some lead.  If a figure carries a warning that it isn't sold as a toy for children but is for adults (or some similar wordage) then it might be that it contains lead (as well, as sharp edges, small parts, etc).

EDIT: Damnation! I spent so long typing that Black Hat sneaked in ahead of me  lol
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Offline Mick_in_Switzerland

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Re: Materials for making figures
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2015, 11:22:52 AM »
Thank-you both for the info about metal alloys.   The tiranti link is very interetsing.

Offline black hat miniatures

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Re: Materials for making figures
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2015, 11:27:33 AM »
I buy my metal through GW Neale (and have done for the last 9 years..)

this is a list of what they provide

http://www.gwneale.co.uk/castingalloys.html


Mike

 

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