painting over a grey undercoat

[The Black Rider]

I recently was given a load of minis to paint but the guy has given them a grey undercoat. I'm not used to this as I mainly paint with a black undercoat.

Do any of you paint with a grey undercoat? What is the reasoning about it? I do a black one so that it would help with the shadows (and also it is how i have been doing it for around 10 years!)

Thanks guys

[keeper]

I sometimes use a grey undercoat.  I also sometimes use black or white.

As you already know, a black undercoat gives an easy way of doing shadows, and blacklining with minimal effort.  However, it also usually produces a darker figure overall.  I use a black undercoat for things like orcs and monsters and anything that I want to have a darker, grittier feel - generally for bad guys.

A white undercoat generally gives a lighter finish overall, but you need to be certain of you ability to cover it it, because spots of white in the shadows on the mini just makes it look unfinished.  I generally use this for knights and heros and anything that is going to have a brighter feel to it.  Also I've found white to be pretty much essential if you've got a lot of bright colours, like a knight in white robes, or one of those yellow space marines (Imperial Fists?).

A grey undercoat is a compromise between the two.  You don't get the shading effect, or such a bright finish, but it is more forgiving of small missed spots and can produce a nice, plain finish.  I've found it good for lot of things, but especially for non-combatants and some sci-fi and VSF armour.  However, I don't tend to bother with it for any minis smaller than 28mm.

So, if you don't want to re-undercoat, I'd say wash the minis with a dark brown or black before you paint them, and you should get something pretty close to what you're used to.  If you'd rather re-undercoat and the paint isn't too thick already, just do it - it shouldn't matter to much.

Hope that helps!

[Orctrader]

I have painted over both white and grey undercoats as an experiement but now always use black. 

I have read that it is impossible to paint really bright colours unless you use white or grey.  I think my painting, along with many other painters work proves the opposite.  I, personally,  have never found any advantage from a white or grey undercoat.

If I had figures already undercoated in grey I would add a coat of black.  If the current undercoat is already "thick" or you don't wany to spend that much time, a wash in a mix of black ink and water should give you just about the same depth in "shadow areas" as a black undercoat would.  I've done this myself on occasion.

[argsilverson]

some years ago, while going from enamels to acrylics, I undercoated some of my figures with grey undercoat. the obvious reason is that grey accepts better the red and blue shades (while white make them a little pink or shows underneath, black has a difficulty on the reds) and second reason is it adds to the opacity.

I suggest to try to overpaint over the grey or undercoat it with black. be careful not to loose details. However before any try of paints check some figure about the compatibility of the paints with the undercoat (I fancy that your customer cannot remember the make of it).

In the meantime while writing my post Orctrader has posted a similar. I agree with him as well.

[Aaron]

Wot they said. I also experimented in my youth, but now stick to trusty black primer followed by a quick drybrushing of white to build in some shading and, more importantly, help me see the details!

[The Black Rider]

thanks for getting back to me. I am now trying to paint with the grey and as there are only 4 of them im not too worried with the outcome (if it's truely bad there is always paint stripper!  )

I am not sure what type of primer the previous owner has used either. It isn't as smooth and light as I normally like an undercoat

[Plynkes]

The only time I undercoat in grey is when I'm feeling lazy and have to do figures dressed predominantly in white, such as desert tribesmen in robes. I use the undercoat as my darkest shade, and highlight up from that, either with dry-brushing, or layering, or both, depending on how I feel.

The rest of the time I undercoat white mostly and use black for figures that are predominantly dark, such as African tribesmen. I dunno, using white is just the way I learned it. I'm used to it and like it. As has been said, it isn't impossible to get bright colours on a black undercoat, it just takes more coats, and I'm lazy. That needs to be balanced against the fact that black undercoat gives you nice dark shadows in the nooks and crannies that you don't need to paint over, so I guess I gain something and lose something in the laziness stakes whichever method I use! 

[argsilverson]

thanks for getting back to me. I am now trying to paint with the grey and as there are only 4 of them im not too worried with the outcome (if it's truely bad there is always paint stripper!  )

I am not sure what type of primer the previous owner has used either. It isn't as smooth and light as I normally like an undercoat

It sounds to me like an undercoat (early production) of Basetex company. Usually if you leave it for some time they were thick.

[archangel1]

Way back in the distant days of my youth, several of the miniature lines came pre-primed in grey.  Lassett was one of them, I believe.  I think it was used mainly because it was neutral, dark enough that you could see the details yet light enought not to overpower the paints of the day.  Floquil's original primer was grey while Imrie-Risley's was green! I liked I-R's primer because it was a tight seal (it was almost a plastic coating) but, unfortunately, it often dried to a slick semi-gloss which repelled some matt paints, and, it stank!

[The Black Rider]

i'll post some pics up soon to show my results. I have yet to try a white undercoat but very curious to try!!

I like to learn how other people paint. It make for good conversation and helps me to get better! All us painters be it the most experienced to the lesser all have something to say. I love this site, there is no place more friendly and informative anywhere else it seems

[Ramshackle_Curtis]

I almost always use a grey undercoat. Gives a more realistic luminosity I find...never use black! BLACK! WHATS FOR TEA MOTHER? MORE OF YOUR LIES?!

[Plynkes]

 
They tap at my window with tiny poles!

I think we'd better be going home now, Johnny.

It's never a good sign when you need to get the black out.

[Wirelizard]

I (almost) always use grey myself - black means the lighter colours take too much work to get looking good, in my experience. I have used black primer on orcs, goblins and some monsters - figures unlikely to have lighter, brighter shades on them!

Never tried white, actually - medium grey is close enough, and the only white spraypaints I've ever had were way too thick to use as primer...

[oxiana]

I was always a strict undercoater in white, for the nice brightness you get. I paint with quite thinned down paints, can't be bothered with repeated layering, and am a serial user of washes, which I find tends to fill in lots of missed gaps!

For some reason I've recently started playing around a bit. I did some Copplestone Inuit that were going to be mainly in browns, so I thought 'Why not undercoat in brown to start with?'. That seemed to work quite nicely. All my recent minis have started with grey undercoats - nice flat surface and takes the colour well. I just can't get on with black undercoating. I can see why others might like it, but it's just not to my taste. And ultimately, I guess that's what it's all about.

One thing I do do though is undercoat the base in a different colour. I just base with sand, and when I've done the figure slap on a coat of khaki or similar. Then, when the mini is done I just have to neaten up around the feet and it's ready for a wash and drybrush (my laughably traditional basing technique). Saves me a bit of time when I'm on the final leg and just want to see what the darned thing is going to look like all finished.

[JollyBob]

They tap at my window with tiny poles!

I think we'd better be going home now, Johnny.

It's never a good sign when you need to get the black out.

They lock me in the cellar and feed me pins!


I've only used it the once myself, and that was because a recent order from em4 came pre-undercoated in grey and I was too lazy to do anything about it. Worked fine for me, and I usually use black for my stuff.

I only use white undercoat if I have a lot of skin to do, like on my recent cavemen. Of course I then knacker the effect with a heavy handed wash, but you get the idea...