War of the Roses

[Captain Blood]

As an aside, I wonder whether carrying the master's banner / standard / flag was regarded as a great honour or a pain in the arse? It's always struck me that if you have to carry a sodding great flapping lump of fabric around on a very tall heavy wooden pole, you would find it extremely hard to defend yourself one-handed - and yet you would by virtue of the role of standard-bearer have to be fairly near where the action is...
Not a duty calculated to do much for one's life expectancy, I wouldn't have thought... 

[Dawnbringer]

As an aside, I wonder whether carrying the master's banner / standard / flag was regarded as a great honour or a pain in the arse?

I've found alot of things in the army that are quite capable of being both.

[commissarmoody]

I've found alot of things in the army that are quite capable of being both.

Beat me too it DB. As an RTO I was giving a lot more lea way then the other Joes. But at the same time a lot more was expected of me mentally and I guess the antennas are just as much of a target today as a banner would have been in the past.

[Arlequín]

I've found a lot of things in the army that are quite capable of being both.

I'm pretty certain that this was the case here too. On the one hand the guy carrying the banner/standard would have a certain status... but he still has to carry it and be where his boss is; on the plus side he would be standing behind him.

[Atheling]

As an aside, I wonder whether carrying the master's banner / standard / flag was regarded as a great honour or a pain in the arse? It's always struck me that if you have to carry a sodding great flapping lump of fabric around on a very tall heavy wooden pole, you would find it extremely hard to defend yourself one-handed - and yet you would by virtue of the role of standard-bearer have to be fairly near where the action is...
Not a duty calculated to do much for one's life expectancy, I wouldn't have thought... 

My guess is that it was both a great honour but knowing human nature secretly a real pain in the arse too!

Darrell.

[joroas]

As an aside, I wonder whether carrying the master's banner / standard / flag was regarded as a great honour or a pain in the arse? It's always struck me that if you have to carry a sodding great flapping lump of fabric around on a very tall heavy wooden pole, you would find it extremely hard to defend yourself one-handed - and yet you would by virtue of the role of standard-bearer have to be fairly near where the action is...
Not a duty calculated to do much for one's life expectancy, I wouldn't have thought...

It was, of course, a great honour to carry the flag.  It was carried by a junior officer or sergeant and defended by chosen men, still called Colour Sergeants in the British army.  Dangerous?  Of course it was.  You were carrying a huge target and any reading of ACW battles, for instance, revealed that every man would be a target, and the capture of an eagle or standard led to large rewards, promotion or medals.

[Captain Blood]

It was, of course, a great honour to carry the flag.  It was carried by a junior officer or sergeant and defended by chosen men, still called Colour Sergeants in the British army.  

In later times, yes of course - in the age of regimented, organised warfare from the pike and musket era on.
My pondering was specific to the late medieval.

If you were part of a small retinue of 40 or 50 men from a particular estate, and you were the chump 'honoured' with having to hold up your Lord's personal banner, and stand next to him in the front line thus encumbered, while some great bastard in full plate armour came at you with a poll-axe trying to smash your head in while you ineffectually attempt to fend him off one-handed, one suspects one would have pretty mixed feelings about it...
Some prestige - no doubt. But surely greatly shortened life expectancy too.

Well, I'd prefer to have both hands free if it were me...  

We shall never know, of course...  

[Arlequín]

Well the guy who's job it would be in the WotR would be the 'costril' (and variations of the name thereof, or 'varlet' and 'valet de guerre' in Europe) who attended every 'proper' man at arms. If you were well-off enough to need a standard bearer as well as a banner bearer, you would give that 'honour' to one of the costrils of the accompanying men at arms you no doubt had in your retinue.

I would imagine even at this early date that in the foot 'companies' raised alongside the retinues, that there would be an 'Enseigne' or something like that, to carry its standard and who would count amongst the 'officers' as far as pay went (certainly such individuals existed in English armies in the HYW, as well as the French, Burgundian and Low Countries armies). The captain's own banner if he had one, likewise being carried by his attending costril.

Either way the job would go to someone of some renown, rank or experience... essentially the forerunners of the ensigns and colour-sergeants Joroas mentions. As the lowering (or indeed falling) of a banner or standard indicated the death of whoever or surrender, picking the numpty who could not tie his own pourpoint together, because he was good for nothing else, was not an option.

It is also probable that men were detailed off to guard the flags in battle too; Coventry supplied a small number of bills along with a much larger number of bows, to its men in one instance. It is believed that these were for 'watch and ward' in camp, but it can be imagined that they would also be used to defend the standard bearers too. The later colour-sergeants were used in this role, to defend the ensigns who actually carried the colours... every tradition starts somewhere.