Slouch Hat in 1935-36?

[Happy Wanderer]

Gents,

Does anyone know of any units that used the Slouch hat that were dressed in WW1 British kit in the interwar years...except Australians? (i.e.these minis are WW1 Aussies)

Are there any African forces that would apply, mostly likely from Commonwealth types in Africa I guess...Kenyan based troops, Rhodesians, South Africans? anyone else?

Any info on using WW1 Aussies in Africa in the mid thirties would be appreciated.

Cheers

Happy W

[Ming]

Royal West African Field Force certainly wore the slouch hat. I can't be certain of the exact uniform though. I can see no reason why they would not still be using up the old WW1 stock into the 1930s.

[Happy Wanderer]

Hi Ming,

Nice idea. The Royal West African Field Force fought in East Africa in 1916-18 as well so they are likely to be useful there in the years leading up to and including WW2 where they served there once again...I guess the only thing is if using WW1 aussies the skin colour will not quite be right.  

This pic is of WW1 Rhodesians...any idea if this is how they'd look in 1936...no puttees though....but that is a field mod easily fixed



Cheers

Happy W

[Arlequín]

Regular forces tended to have sun helmets, with the South Africans having their own model. Volunteers, Citizen Force, Irregulars and what have you, tended to have a tradition of slouch hats going back to the 19th Century, particularly if they originated as a mounted force. The Selous Scouts for example, back when they were 'mounted infantry' and before they became an armoured car unit, had them, so did the BSAP except on parade. The RAR wore slouch hats as did the RR... there are some photos knocking about dated from 1935.

[Sirius]

Not much evidence of South Africans wearing slouch hats in that period. Certainly not as part of their formal uniform, either campaign or dress. (For example, the, Natal Mounted Rifles, a regiment that had until 1916 used the slouch hat as part of their formal uniform, specified helmets in 1934 dress orders) That said, if any unit had kept it, it was the Duke of Edinburgh's Own Rifles - "Cape Town Rifles" - who are depicted in 1940 in formal parades wearing the slouch hat (left hand side pinned up). Couldn't find pix of them in 1934-5. The South African NMC (Native Military Corps) and Cape Coloured Corps wore the slouch hat in 1939, but again, I am not sure when that was introduced. The only interwar campaign I can think of for the Saffa's was the 1922 Rand Rebellion, and there the evidence does not support slouch hats - mostly service caps and pith helmets appear.

But, the slouch hat had been worn informally on campaign from the Boer War onwards, and there are plenty of photos of Saffas of all regiments in mixed pith helmets/slouch hats during both the 1916 and 1940 campaigns in East Africa.

For the Northern Rhodesian Regiment - seems their troopers wore the pillbox hat with sun flap until about 1937, and then changed to the slouch hat in 1938 or 9. Not sure when the KAR changed to slouch hats, but I suspect it was about the same time.

[Happy Wanderer]

Thanks Guys,

Lots of ideas in there. I have a chap here wanting to use his Australian WW1 infantry for some actions in East Africa during the mid thirties...looks like he'll be able to pass them off as some South African or North Rhodesian infantry types and get away with it.

Capetown Rifles sound pretty cool

Here they are in 1901....other than leggings they'd look pretty similar from what your saying.



Cheers


Happy W

[Arlequín]

I see no reason why events in the Mid-Thirties would not follow the same route as 1940. The South African Army was not intended up to fight outside of South Africa and the manpower pool was only something like 320,000, with a regular army of some 5,000 and 15,000 or so ACF territorials on the books.

In 1940 it was a case of asking for volunteers (regulars, CF and civilians), who formed the 1st Brigade Group - 1st Duke of Edinburgh's Own Rifles, 1st Royal Natal Carbineers, 1st Transvaal Scottish (Motorised) and elements of the 4th and 7th SA Artillery Corps.

There was also an armoured car company, but I have no idea what they were using before Ford in Port Elizabeth started cranking out the Marmon-Herrington in 1940, or even if SA had any armoured cars before that. Two Crossleys were sent in the 20s... but that's all I know.    

This photo shows South Africans saluting Italians in WWII and the two guys on the left have slouch hats... what unit they belong to, or even if they were actually South Africans, is anyone's guess - but they do seem to be wearing the SA KD tunic.  

[Sirius]

Here be the Dukes in East Africa in 1940...





Close enough, Happy Wanderer?

[Happy Wanderer]

Close enough indeed 

...I like that shot of the fort....nice 

Pop on 1935 uniforms and I think the slouch hat is a given. Combined with Arlequin's info it appears it's a done deal.

Thanks chaps. 

Happy W

[Sirius]

Here be the Imperial Light Horse (obviously in full parade kit) in 1934.

So, yes, I think you would be on the money with WW1 kit + slouch hats...

[Arlequín]

Those don't look like SA pattern sun helmets either, which makes life much easier. 

[Sirius]

It does, doesn't it.

/threadjack

But modelling the South Africans from 1940-1941 is tricky - the combination of their "polo" helmets, gaiters, tunics and 1935-pattern webbing gives them a particular identity... Know of any suitable figures for conversion fodder?

The only blessing is that the photographic and anecdotal evidence suggests the South Africans were particularly and notably "relaxed" regarding uniform regulations, so you can get away with some "incorrect" details...

end threadjack/

[Arlequín]

As far as I know (and I haven't really looked into it) the South Africans 'abroad' (i.e. 'red tabs') generally looked little different to the Australians, who also had No.3 webbing to begin with, or something like it. A couple of photos I've seen even show British style short gaiters and tin hats.

On the topic of South Africa in WWII, I am looking for a picture showing someone carrying an SMLE with the Rieder attachment on active service... a fully automatic SMLE has to be the oddest thing.



Apparently it could take a Bren mag too.



Apparently three were sent 'overseas' from The Castle, but where and to whom I don't know. It must have been interesting to shoot to say the least. I recall my shoulder being black and blue from an hour on the range with a standard SMLE.

[Sirius]

Apparently three were sent 'overseas' from The Castle, but where and to whom I don't know. It must have been interesting to shoot to say the least. I recall my shoulder being black and blue from an hour on the range with a standard SMLE.

Shew! Haven't ever seen such! Will look out for clues in the sources I have, but all pix i have seen show squad support teams had Brens or Bren derivatives from 1940... Were they literally at the Castle? So most likely the Cape Town Highlanders?

[Arlequín]

Apparently so, there were supposedly 18 altogether. One of the sites I was perusing even had the serial numbers. I don't think for a minute that  the three sent off were ever used in action, but I'd like to think they were tried at least once.

Full story here: http://www.forgottenweapons.com/rieder-automatic-rifle/

Which leads me onto a question. What did the Saffies use as a LMG before the Bren? Did they use the Lewis Gun, or were there some Vickers-Berthiers, or something like that (Madsens, Hotchkiss, whatever), equipping the PF or ACF before 1940?

Freakin insane looking shooter with the bren mag though. That would make a good 40k gun something like that.

Oddly I was thinking that some grimdark WW1-without-end type weird-war set up really needs these in the mix.