Dux bellorum or lion rampant?

[Argonor]

Hasn't there been talk about a SAGA ruleset for bigger battles? Or has my brain made that up?

[RAD]

Does anyone still play WAB around? It's long dead but Age of Arthur and Shieldwall look mighty good supplements. I've been reading them over for years but never played them

[Atheling]

Does anyone still play WAB around? It's long dead but Age of Arthur and Shieldwall look mighty good supplements.

The last time I played was well over a year ago- we used the new lists from the WAB 2 rule book and they weren't bad at all. Burgundians vs Late C15 English.

The Age of Arthur supplement was easily the best that was produced. Closely followed by El Cid and Shieldwall. I was even considering using Shieldwall for my Hastings demo at Salute until I came across a better rule book.

I've been reading them over for years but never played them

You've never played WAB? Wow! If you've got any armies that are suitable give it a go!

Darrell.

[Vermis]

WAB and Shieldwall are what made me buy Dux Bellorum.

Granted, Shieldwall games were my only experience of WAB, and the supplement itself seems quite well-written. Maybe it's close to the pinnacle of WAB gaming, as I've heard before; but for me, coming off WFB, it helped me realise that it wasn't just the overpowered special rules and items and characters, it was Warhammer itself that peed me off.

(And TBH, Shieldwall didn't help by making me pick thegn casualties out of the middle of mixed units, and try to push the ceorls up into the gaps)

[guitarheroandy]

Age of Arthur is a far better WAB supplement for me. Shieldwall was too 'fantasy' with the Vikings in particular and the Picts with pikes... Age of Arthur was just so much more balanced and more fun to play.

Players hankering after WAB sized games could check out War and Conquest (WaC). I am currently working with the author writing Arthurian age lists for it - we just held our first WaC event and having used the lists finished thus far. I suppose you could say it's like WAB with the 'crappy' bits ironed out.   But you do need more models for WaC than Dux Bellorum or Lion Rampant. One of the good things about both of those sets is the smaller number of models required for standard size games (you possibly need a few more for Dux Bellorum, depending on what army you select.)

[WillieB]

Another vote for Dux Brittaniarum.
Don't know why but it really feels like you're playing a Dark Ages game. Or at least as I presume it should be.
Truthfully there are a few discrepancies in the rules, but most if not all have been addressed by the Raiders! supplement or on the TFL forum or Yahoo group.
Any question you might have concerning the rules will be answered swiftly either by the author or an experienced player.

As for the question whether anyone has ever completed a campaign. Our first multi-player campaign ran for 81 weeks and was, by mutual consent ended by two big battles. Simple reason: more and more players were joining the campaign, but long-time players proved too hard with their already huge armies.

Our second campaign which started in February is still running and shows absolutely no sign of slowing down. I'll have to write the 31st AAR next Monday.

Played Dux Bellorum several times too and really liked the rules. A bit more abstract than Dux Brittaniarum with slightly more troop types and variety.
I intended to use 15mms for Dux Bellorum and my 28s for Dux Brittaniarum. Excellent excuse to get a new army?
As said the rules played very well but on at least two occasions several units got locked into combat with no foreseeable end in sight. The attacker kept attacking and the defender kept reinforcing and negating most of the attacks. Mind you this might have been our fault because of misreading a rule, but I've heard the same comments from another group of wargamers outside our club.

Don't know about Lion Rampant as I will be buying this ruleset either at SELWG tomorrow or at Crisis in two weeks. Got some excellent reviews but as I understand it is more geared towards a later period, and therefore I will be using it as an excuse to buy those magnificent Scottish and Irish figures from Claymore.


 

[Big Rick]

WillieB, That`s the first time I have heard Raiders filedl some of those holes so I`ll have to buy it, something I was planning anyway. The Yahoo group is still something I`m trying to figure out but I have been on TFL`s forum.


We tried WAB and found Shieldwall to be very over powered compared to the other books. I love the Dark Ages and my son likes anything Roman so we tried mixing armies from different supplements and found it did`nt work so we moved on.

[guitarheroandy]

Played Dux Bellorum several times too and really liked the rules. A bit more abstract than Dux Brittaniarum with slightly more troop types and variety.
I intended to use 15mms for Dux Bellorum and my 28s for Dux Brittaniarum. Excellent excuse to get a new army?
As said the rules played very well but on at least two occasions several units got locked into combat with no foreseeable end in sight. The attacker kept attacking and the defender kept reinforcing and negating most of the attacks. Mind you this might have been our fault because of misreading a rule, but I've heard the same comments from another group of wargamers outside our club.

Were you playing with shield wall armies? Shieldwall combats can grind on in Dux Bellorum, but that's the nature of shield wall warfare... Eventually one side will break. We have found (playing my Romano British vs saxons) that it often goes to the wire. One side will break and their army crumbles, but the victor is often in a pretty shocking state too. I do think that's probably about right for the period, but I guess it could get dull game after game. I haven't yet tried it with a non-shieldwall army like the Welsh. Given that my opponent plays non-shieldwall Saxons, that could be an interesting game...

[WillieB]

WillieB, That`s the first time I have heard Raiders filedl some of those holes so I`ll have to buy it, something I was planning anyway. The Yahoo group is still something I`m trying to figure out but I have been on TFL`s forum.

We tried WAB and found Shieldwall to be very over powered compared to the other books. I love the Dark Ages and my son likes anything Roman so we tried mixing armies from different supplements and found it did`nt work so we moved on.

Yes, Raiders fixes loose ends like Armoury workshops etc. Also introduces heavy cavalry for the Romano British which makes a world of difference.
Still those Raiders are still very, very annoying especially the Picts with their §@%$§§ war dogs.

[Old Guy]

@ Big Rick, you can have the whole Raiders shebang for a tenner if you PM me and that will include UK postage, gathering dust on my shelf.

[RAD]

Hi Atheling,

"You've never played WAB? Wow! If you've got any armies that are suitable give it a go! Smiley"

Unfortunately not, neither have i played for, say, almost two decades! But i'm still painting, at a very slow rate because of lack of time (and spending part of it watching wargames forums!). 

I've had collected boxes of arthurian lead over the years and my son being close to 13, it's time i make up my mind and finish some war bands so i can be ready when the time comes, really soon i suppose.

Do you guys know if TFL plans another supplement? I'd like to play some arthurians against franks at Ynis Trebes and i may give it a go with Dux Britanarium.

[Atheling]

Hi Atheling,

"You've never played WAB? Wow! If you've got any armies that are suitable give it a go! Smiley"

Unfortunately not, neither have i played for, say, almost two decades! But i'm still painting, at a very slow rate because of lack of time (and spending part of it watching wargames forums!). 

  Been there and done just that 

It actually shows a lot of dedication to the hobby that you're still painting and modelling after not playing for nearly two decades. I'm full of admiration if I'm honest

I've had collected boxes of arthurian lead over the years and my son being close to 13, it's time i make up my mind and finish some war bands so i can be ready when the time comes, really soon i suppose.

Do you guys know if TFL plans another supplement? I'd like to play some arthurians against franks at Ynis Trebes and i may give it a go with Dux Britanarium.

I couldn't tell you to be honest but you could ask over at the TFL forum:

http://toofatlardies.co.uk/forum/

I reckon they would convert quite easily but see what they have to say.

Darrell.

[danmer]

@Sunspear... I wrote both Dux Bellorum and Lion Rampant. If you'd like to drop me a line about any specific details, feel free to PM me.

Like some others here, I also heartily recommend Saga: it's a cracking game.

[Atheling]

Dan is the man (sorry Dan, couldn't resist!) to talk to.....

Darrell.

@Sunspear... I wrote both Dux Bellorum and Lion Rampant. If you'd like to drop me a line about any specific details, feel free to PM me.

Like some others here, I also heartily recommend Saga: it's a cracking game.

[Calumma]

One other thing to consider is that out of the skirmish level games being discussed SAGA probably has the lowest figure count. Most games are 6 points, but 4 point starter armies are available (and quite playable). At the recent SELWG we ran a four point SAGA participation game that didn't feel too small a game. But it doesn't take too long to collect and paint a full 6 point warband. I have also played and enjoy Lion Rampant. SAGA warbands can be easily built upon to create LR retinues. I also own Dux Bellorum but haven't played it yet. Next years Blood Eagle also looks interesting. As others have said, for mass combat battles other rulesets such as Hail Caesar (that I really enjoy playing) are probably more appropriate.