Starguard 7th edition?

[BlackWidowPilot]

BTW, I learned late (3rd edition) which I mostly played then owned 5th or 6th edition so it may have changed a bit since then.

Leland R. Ericksen (Spelling) is who I as thinking of...

You should know better than to mention my name.... 

[BlackWidowPilot]

I have 3rd edition.  A ton has changed between that and 5th edition (about 150 MORE pages of incomprehensibly written rules).  Also, only about 1/2 the races/factions, and equipment were in 3rd edition.  I got 3rd edition after trying to gronk 5th edition.  I figured this thin little book would be a piece of cake, and I could finally play SG.  Unfortunately, these rules make Chainmail look like a masterpiece of writing and clarity.

Anyone (online) I've ever heard say anything good about SG, or with fond memories ALWAYS says they played it at a con with John (or one of his immediate gaming circle).  I've never heard of one person who has picked this up on their own and comprehended and played it.

I know it sounds like I'm being negative.  I'm not trying to, I've always wanted to play this, and I love the miniatures...I just can't understand why, if he is serious about keeping the game "alive" as more than a novelty that people take a look at and never play, he doesn't collaborate with someone who can edit the game into something that actually has a chance of gaining a fan base. 

IIRC the fundamental difference between 3rd edition and 7th is the use of percentile dice mechanics versus the 2D6/D12 system presented in 3rd. Otherwise the turn sequence and actions figures may perform are the same.

At least that is how I've played it consistently ever since Warbots & Death Machines was issued waaaay back in the Jurassic Age and Starguard! went over to percentile dice with 4th or 5th edition around the same time. I'll dig out my copy and go over it in the next day or two to see what I can see, but again, the fundamental difference is the use of the percentile dice mechanics and how they work versus the old D12/D6 system, so if you understand 3rd edition you pretty much understand 7th IMHO.

Hope this helps!

[Conquistador]

I still own Terran Imperium Power Armor (Trolls) and Starguard Power Armor but sold off everything else (rules and Nektons primarily) a while back.

Some sources of information and discussion:

Note - some sites are blocked by agency firewalls (yes, multiple,) but a web search will find those very easily so this is not a totally inclusive list.

http://www.matakishi.com/starguard1.htm

http://72-multiverse.blogspot.com/2013/04/starguard.html

https://forum.rpg.net/archive/index.php/t-432588.html

http://wargamers.wikia.com/wiki/STARGUARD_-_The_game_that_would_not_die!

http://www.miniatures-workshop.com/lostminiswiki/index.php?title=Starguard

http://theminiaturespage.com/rules/scf/starguard.html

https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/8198/starguard

http://androidarts.com/starguard/starguard.htm

http://blackwidowpilot.blogspot.com/2013/02/and-even-more-15mm-madness.html

http://www.wargaming-rules.com/2016/04/starguard-mcewan-miniatures-1974.html

[Earther]

Out of interest, does anyone know if the Starguard figure ranges would scale well with old Citadel Spacefarers and Denizen sci-fi miniatures?

[eilif]

I don't know anything about Citadel Spacefarers.
As for Denizen, unfortunately not.  Starguard is sometimes called 25mm, but that's only if you're measuring to the top of their hair/headgear/etc.  The pics I've seen of them put them at about 20 or 21 mm sole to eye showing that they're actually 1/72 or 20mm figs.  

Denizen's has some slightly smaller space adventurers (like their hitch hikers), but their main sci-fi lines are about 27mm sole to eye. Here's a coupe pics I took of Denizen figs a few years back.  All the unpainted stuff is denizen.

Grenadier, Ventauran, Khiff and an Urban Mamoth fig


Ventauran,Hitchikers and an Urban Mamoth fig.

[Earther]

Thanks for that eilif. The old Citadel Spacefarers are more like the hitch hikers in size, but that is still very helpful.

Some of the aliens may work, but I'll avoid the humans. 

[eilif]

You're very welcome.  I do recall hearing that some of the Starguard alien races and even some of the humanoid races are taller than 20mm, but I couldn't tell you which ones those were.  Good luck in the search.

As an aside, I REALLY like the Denizen lines.  I'm very pleased with the Ventaurans and Khiff that I've painted up.  If I needed more human sci-fi factions (I really don't...) I'd strongly consider the two federation lines.  They're a smidge small by modern standards but with their integral base, they size up well on top of a slotta and they're just so dang well sculpted.

[northtroll]

The new 7th edition and the 6th edition have switched to using D10 instead of D% to resolve combat, and acquire targets. There is a a turn sequence clearly laid  out as well. This edition has color images as well! Unlike the 5th and 6th edition this version is offered as a PDF or a soft cover book. As far as Starguard figures mixing with older mini lines they look pretty close from what I can tell. Newer figures will be huge next to them however.

[BlackWidowPilot]

Out of interest, does anyone know if the Starguard figure ranges would scale well with old Citadel Spacefarers and Denizen sci-fi miniatures?

I would assert not very well, as the Starguard! figures are all 1/72 scale, so they're closer to plastic figures such as HaT Industrie or Pegasus produces for historical wargaming than the old "25mm scale" Denizen or Citadel lines. I keep meaning to do a photo shoot of my collection of Starguard! figures and models, but just haven't been able to justify the time necessary yet to dig everything out of storage and do them photographic justice...

[johnl5555]

  I use my painted Dreenoi with my 25mm armies made up of Grenadier, WEG, Heritage and Gzg with no problem. Not being human it's an easier fit.

Thanks.

[eilif]

Here's some scale shots with Starguard next to a 1/72 plastic.
http://72-multiverse.blogspot.com/2013_04_01_archive.html

Looks like the 72'er and the Starguard come to around 22mm sole to eye. 25mm to top of head. I see no reason that Starguard Aliens couldn't mix with classic 25's like the ones Johnl5555 mentions, but the humans might come across pretty weedy.   

Basically the same as when I use Denizen Venturan figs (26-27mm) against my Sedition Wars Humans (31-32mm).  It would look silly if both where human but since one is alien it looks just fine.

Personally, I don't think it's a bad thing that they're 1/72.  There are more than enough 25 and 28mm lines already, but only a few 20mm/1:72 sci-fi lines.

[BlackWidowPilot]

  I use my painted Dreenoi with my 25mm armies made up of Grenadier, WEG, Heritage and Gzg with no problem. Not being human it's an easier fit.

Thanks.

No question about the assorted BEMs/ETs from Starguard!, as an alien doesn't have to be human-sized one way or another to be plenty lethal (Chingers, anyone?  )

Some of the vehicles and robot gun drones are also pretty "scale neutral" as well. Here's two of my Dreenoi "Cockroach" walking tanks next to some Old Glory/Blue Moon 15mm sci-fi figures for comparison:

[BlackWidowPilot]

Personally, I don't think it's a bad thing that they're 1/72.  There are more than enough 25 and 28mm lines already, but only a few 20mm/1:72 sci-fi lines.

This was the first sci-fi wargaming minis I ever collected and painted thanks to a chance encounter with a wargaming convention here in the Bay Area waaaaay back around 1975. I still have several hundred figures and models not counting kitbashed AFVs and such for Starguard! covering every faction. Classic stuff, this. 

[Grimmnar]

a chance encounter with a wargaming convention here in the Bay Area waaaaay back around 1975.

Man you are fur sure an ODB. :-)
But i am glad your madness has been released. Just cant wait to see what you come up with following the days you become full blown insane. I know there is so much more untapped potential in there banging around. :-)

Grimm

[The_Beast]

You young pup! 

My first battles were Roco tanks in the mid-60's! Unless you count plastic models and firecrackers...

Course, I lose massive veneration points for having not done much toy soldiering for a one or two decades thereafter. 

However, the older I get, the more I need me toys.

Doug