Iberian warriors

[Erik]

I recently purchased Victrix Iberian miniatures (lovely figures) and I’m I bit in doubt of how to assemble them best. What I mostly want is to mix them a little with maybe 1:4 sword armed warriors and probably the same with the smaller round shield in the same units. Make them look a bit barbarian like instead of ordered infantry with the same armament. Now I know there is the whole Scutarii Caetratii think to consider here so I like to hear what people think. There are not that many painted examples out there yet to take inspiration from.

Do I mix or do I make a sword armed, small shield Caetratii unit and a spear armed large shield Scutarii unit

Cheers
Erik

[Mithridates1]

Erik

Like you I bought a box for my Carthaginians, to go with older metal figures.    

Planning 2 small units of Caetrati and a larger Scutarii one for Hail Caesar games.    My thinking was javelins for the small units (maybe the odd swordsmen for effect) and maybe 30/50% swordsmen for the Scutarii.   Front rank especially as they have already thrown their heavy javelins!  Shields - thinking of using larger shields for the scutarii and smaller ones for the caetrati.  

Upto you really depending on the effect you wish to create - I was planning these guys as good quality mercenaries hence standardising shields.

Agree they are fine figures, shame they have to wait in line patiently to be painted.........

Garry

[delbruck]

From what I understand the majority of "warriors" would use the same type of shield in a tribe. Supposedly, the Lusitanians were one of the few tribes that the warriors used the caetra. Since the type of shield carried effects the fighting style of the tribe, I would expect the majority of warriors to use the same type of shield.

[Erik]

Right. So mixed weapons okay but small shield for Caetrati units only. As you Garry I also plan on using them for my Hail Caesar Carthaginians (Victrix) . I use 16 man strong units on four 4X4 bases with four man pr. base. I might do the Caetrati three man pr. base to show they are light troops.

The Iberians are as of tonight out of the painting line and on the table. I painted this guy friday just because I really like the pose.



I was thinking of signing them up for the army painter 2016/2017 as a Lions Rampant Iberian warband. My Carthaginian army could actually be split into a Greek, Celtic, African and Iberian Lions Rampant warband.

[Mithridates1]

Great job Erik.   A striking pose as you say. 

I am also thinking how best to base light troops like caetrati.   Previously I have used single bases and sabot extensions into open order.   A bit messy.  A fellow wargamer has used 2 light troops on a 40 x 40mm base.    Units of 8.  Thus 4 bases in a line in open order (160mm long) and then closed up as 2 lines of 2 bases (80mm deep x 80mm long).

Garry

[delbruck]

Very nice. Mixed weapons is fine. Each warrior would have a sword plus one or more javelins.

[FierceKitty]

Barbarians aren't necessarily chaotic and stupid. Light and heavy would be unlikely to be in the same unit.

[commissarmoody]

Barbarians aren't necessarily chaotic and stupid. Light and heavy would be unlikely to be in the same unit.

Yep, didn't Barbarian pretty much mean, "Stranger, foreign and or Different?"

[Hu Rhu]

I too have purchased some Iberian Warriors both armoured and unarmoured and intend to make a Spanish contingent for Hail Caesar.  My plan is to mix the spanish into two types of units. 

The scutari will be predominantly javelin/pilum armed but about 25-30% sword armed in units of 24 with mixed scutum. They will be mounted on 40 x 40mm bases within a movement tray holding 4 bases.

The caetrati will be a 50-50 mix of javelin/sword with the smaller of the round shields in units of 12. They will be mounted on individual 20 x 20mm bases to represent them as skirmishers but grouped in a movement tray when being used as formed light infantry.

Sadly they are at the back of the painting queue at the moment but I hope to paint up a couple of examples at the weekend.  I hadn't thought about using the Army Painter challenge as a spur to getting them done but I might just do that depending on time frame.

[Erik]

I have been doing a bit of research (always a good thing) and found out that caetrati are lighter than I originally thought. I had them down as light infantry with some fighting potential but from what I gather they were skirmishers. In keeping with my 16 strong unit size, I think I will make two 16 strong scutarii units on 40x40 mm bases and 8 individually mounted caetrati.

Even though I really like the smaller shields I have also realized that scutarii NEED the big shield (taking their name from it and all).

[rumacara]

The Caetrati used the caetra small shield to fight in melee.
They trained specifically for a man to man combat using the small shield to parry enemy strikes.
They could be used as light/squirmish infantry but when they reached the oponent they where agile fighters.
The caetra was used like the small buckler in the medieval period perhaps with greater efect.

[FierceKitty]

Yep, didn't Barbarian pretty much mean, "Stranger, foreign and or Different?"

"Stupid foreigner who can't speak Latin/Greek properly," pretty close in many ways to the English wog, if I may use the term to make a point without endorsing the attitudes that went with it.

The words used for Germans in Slavic languages (Czech's the only one I have significant experience with, but I have Polish and Russian friends), is Nemetski, "not speakers".

[Matakakea]

I remember hearing, many years ago, during my school days that to the Greeks barbarians were 'trouser wearers'. How true that is I've found out.

[fantail]

I too am planning on painting up some Victrix Spanish so I have a question about sources. Do any of the ancient sources mention how the Iberians fought? When people say that they did this or did that I would like to know where that information came from.
Not a criticism, I would like to know so I can read some more.
Thanks

[rumacara]

Fantail here is a small start.

https://translate.google.pt/translate?hl=en&sl=pt&u=http://povosdaantiguidade.blogspot.com/2009/10/lusitanos.html&prev=search

If you read portuguese or spanish i can quote 2 or 3 books.
Even in portuguese information is scarse and some existing is left/written by the romans and greeks.

Try also themes related to the Lusitanian leader Viriato (or viriatus).