[KICKSTARTER] Armoured Syndicate

[mcfonz]

Hi good folk of LAF!! I have backed this kickstarter myself already and then came here and found that I could find no mention of it already - and I know you guys like mechs, post apoc sci fi and evil looking guys in suits so thought I should share it!




They even have their own comic to support the setting!




And the all important linky dink: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1752543891/armoured-syndicate/description

[commissarmoody]

Oh neat

[tnjrp]

Can't really muster enthusiasm for yet another game nor yet for the human minis in the line.

However the machines aren't without merit. I especially like the hard angular aspect of the Dromeda ones. Not sure if I like them enough to invest in their big mech thing (assuming it even comes available) but I did pledge at the "3 for £17" level for a Pinstripe and two Talon drones (and was promptly robbed when they lowered the prices of "human sized" minis to £7 the very next day ).

The big droid with pistols reminds me of AT-43 Cog machines, incidentally.

[CptJake]

The game looked a bit interesting to me, but once I found out they use Prodos for casting that interest disappeared completely.

[mcfonz]

Purely by utter coincidence, yes, honestly! I found out overnight that the chap behind this project lives relatively locally - as I do with some of my articles on new releases on Random Platypus, I often let the manufacturer know - especially if they are a newish company.

He got in touch and as he was passing by as I finished off shift met up with me this morning.

He's a nice chap. I know people are bitter and angry with Prodos, but I think you also have to look past that a bit. Prodos has two parts to it - the part that produces and makes games to sell under the Prodos banner and the casting part of it. There are a lot of companies you probably don't realise use Prodos to cast their miniatures, and they are all entirely trustworthy.

The result of meeting the chap this morning (and I'll remember his name in a moment! ) is that I have been charged with reviewing some models for him and then offering them out as prizes. I hope to stick up another post on here later today with a little product review and the ways in which you can win a couple of sculpts.

[tnjrp]

He's a nice chap. I know people are bitter and angry with Prodos, but I think you also have to look past that a bit. Prodos has two parts to it - the part that produces and makes games to sell under the Prodos banner and the casting part of it. There are a lot of companies you probably don't realise use Prodos to cast their miniatures, and they are all entirely trustworthy

Well, yeah, the problem I think would be that some folks just don't want to knowingly give Prodos any money at all any more -- even indirectly. While I don't feel particularly warm and fuzzy towards them, I'm not quite so stringent since they have not shafted me personally yet (and it's all about me! me! me!). Plus there is the fact that when/if they ever produce any minis for AS, those will most likely be of good to excellent quality.

[CptJake]

I know people are bitter and angry with Prodos, but I think you also have to look past that a bit. Prodos has two parts to it - the part that produces and makes games to sell under the Prodos banner and the casting part of it. There are a lot of companies you probably don't realise use Prodos to cast their miniatures, and they are all entirely trustworthy.

I don't doubt this guy's integrity at all.   But I cannot 'look past' a company that STILL owes me product and has lied to me and other backers repeatedly.    I refuse to buy anything from anyone that uses Prodos, which is why I asked this guy who did his casting.   Supporting a company with a lack of integrity is something I just do not do, even indirectly by supporting another company that uses their services.  If more people did this, companies (like Prodos) could not get away with the crap they do.  In my opinion, everyone benefits when bad actions are not rewarded but instead are punished.  

As I told the guy from Megaton who I communicated with, I wish him and his company the best, but I can't support anything that supports Jarek and crew.  

[Elbows]

Yep...for me Prodos association (in any respect) is a no-go. 

[mcfonz]

Ok, so trying to be fair and reasonable I have let the chap know about your guys responses to my rather innocent initial post, whilst he is waiting for his account on here to be verified he's asked me to post this:

Like the majority of the small games/miniatures design companies in the UK at present, we use Prodos for some of our casting, nearly everyone does because there aren't really any viable alternatives. We have been using them for a couple of years, since before the problems with their own campaigns. because they produce really nice quality resin figures at a really good price. We are a customer of theirs the same as the backers of their campaigns are customers, I don't think it's fair trying to destroy the tens of small businesses in the UK trying to bring cool new miniatures to market in order to make a point and 'stick it to the man'. By not backing a small indie company's Kickstarter because they have to buy resin from a larger company is not hurting Prodos, it is stopping a guy in a small office in the UK from paying his rent and feeding his family. If you have an issue with Prodos... don't support them or their campaigns any more. Please don't take it out on the little guys.

[CptJake]

I understand his point, but the reality is supporting his KS does support Prodos.  Maybe if enough of Prodos' business customers tell Jarek and crew 'Your actions are hurting us, we're finding an alternative' then Prodos would not be able to get away with the lack of integrity they've displayed.   

I'm not trying to 'destroy his business', but I am also not going to support Prodos.  If I was trying to destroy his business I would do crap like pledge for his KS and then litter the KS comments.   I find it bizarre that by not buying something from him I am attempting to 'destroy his business'.  I've not talked bad about him or the game, I admitted it looked interesting, I like the concepts.   I'm not seeking out places to trash the project in any way.  I do think it is fair to say, 'Hey, I am not going to support Prodos, even indirectly,'  as a consumer of products in this hobby I honestly don't see that as mean spirited or even bad.   There are folks who refuse to buy Games Workshop products, or support any business with Tony Reidy involved. 

The game does look interesting.   If he had a pledge for just rules (hard copy) I may even support that.   The last Prodos/Archon KS projsect, LOAD, pulled in over 200k with a LOT of folks actively trashing Prodos (heck, they started out very literally plagiarizing another rule set).   That project did as well as it did based in very large part on the fact Prodos DOES produce very nice figures.   

I never would have made a second post to this topic, but when I read the"you also have to look past that a bit" part it prompted me to.   Again, they still owe me stuff.   Anyone who has paid for product, not received it and been lied to should not 'have to look past' a damned thing.  I submit 'looking past' that just encourages continuance of bad behavior.   

[Elbows]

I have to agree with Captain Jake.  It's a personal opinion to not support Prodos in any way, a message I hope many companies will start to receive from the masses.  Nice figures be damned, zero respect left for the company (and I didn't even pledge the AvP nonsense!).  I don't need a guilt trip about feeding someone's kids when they chose to pursue this line of work and make their decisions for themselves.

[mcfonz]

Elbows and Cpt.Jake - I don't think anyone is disagreeing about Prodos.

But there is an issue for the industry clients as well as clients who directly buy Prodos products. In that you bought into something before knowing about the way they did business.

I'm pretty sure that if Armoured Syndicate could just drop and move casters with no implications they may well have done.

Also, in regards to if enough of those industry clients stopped using them maybe they would change. It's my experience in various situations that this isn't the case. If everyone stopped using Prodos/Archon they would cease to trade. The reality is that for them to change the way they deal with the public, companies would need to continue to use them so that they have the ability to apply pressure.

It's a bit like a share holder selling up their shares and then telling a business how they should be run. You no longer hold any influence so the likelihood of them listening as such are zilch.

Also, my look past it comment has been taken out of context somewhat. When you are looking at a project like this, how much of the money going into it is going to Prodos? I don't know for sure but I suspect it's probably quite insignificant compared to the money that is going to support the company itself. Advising and pressuring people not to buy into it therefore is hurting Armoured Syndicate far more than it is Prodos.

Again, I don't know all of the exact in's and outs. Perhaps when the chaps account gets verified he'll be able to share more himself.

[rocketandroll]

Hi all


I finally managed to get an account on here to reply directly.

Yes, as has been said.... if there was an alternative to Prodos, we'd certainly look at it (given the problems this association seems to have caused) however at present there isn't one.

We looked at various UK casters but their prices were 300% higher than Prodos, yep, 3X. At the time we started working with Prodos they hadn't launched their own Kickstarters and all we knew was that they made really great quality resin figures for a really great price.

Yes, I guess it's your choice to boycott any UK companies who have to use them in order to indirectly send a message to Prodos.... but as it happens, the message has already got back to them as the link to this thread has already been sent back to them along with a strongly worded e-mail asking them to sort their s*it out....

If you have a genuine and useful suggestion as to what myself and the other 20+ UK companies reliant on them for figure production should do to NOT support Prodos but stay in business, I am all ears :-)  We went through quotes and samples from 4 or 5 casting companies before anyone came anywhere close to Prodos on price or quality.


All I ask is.... people see this from our point of view, that's all.... at present our choice is... stop manufacturing resin miniatures, or get them made by Prodos.... that's not much choice to have really.


And the only reason I was unhappy about this being posted was due to Jack having asked me in confidence via the Kickstarter itself who did our casting and then publicly announced that it was Prodos on here for the sake of putting people off supporting the project.... which I found a little upsetting. I wasn't hiding it, I wasn't even aware they had such a problem with their delivery until now.... it's just not nice when someone specifically asks for private commercial information in confidence, tells you that means they won't back your project (which I was fine with) but then posts that information publicly when seeing a public thread about the same project.


Anyway, anybody wants more info, has suggestions of other manufacturers or wants to chat, feel free to message me on here or drop me a message through our website: http://www.megaton-games.com


Cheers all



Ben

[Elbows]

Ben, thanks for chiming in.

Personally, I simply won't risk money on anything related to Prodos - regardless of what portion of a product they're involved in.  However, I'm quite sure I'm a member of a very small vocal minority.  I believe the AvP debacle only had maybe 2500 backers or some such.  I wouldn't worry too much about it impacting sales other than a handful of folks.  I do think Prodos needs to get some vocal responses to their practices from backers and partners.  The perfect result here is that Prodos turns a corner and everything becomes reliable and produced on time - shipped to people etc.  As it stands now, I personally won't trust anything to them.

Now we can let that issue die off and people can discuss the actual Kickstarter!   

[mcfonz]

I really like the minis. I'm putting together a little review that I hope to share with you all in the next couple of days so you can perhaps get a better feel for them.

This was Ben's suggestions after seeing my posts here and elsewhere and has provided me with mini's to review and then offer as prizes for very simple to enter comps.

Keep your eyes peeled!