DR Troop Types for LOTR

[Ethelred the Almost Ready]

The Houses of Hador and Bëor are certainly heavy infantry, predominantly.  The Haladin, probably light foot with plenty of archers. 
Miniatures for the Edain, I think, are problematic.  There needs to be a Dark Age feel, but they have had contact with the Eldar and should have some sophisication.  The House of Hador, in particular, were likely to have access to good elven weapons, or at least mimic these.  Part of my problem also goes to the question "do elves have beards?".  I think the final answer is that they could grow a beard, but this was rare.
Now, I think the Houses of Hador and Bëor probably aped elvish style.  My reasoning is that Turin was taunted by Saeros for his appearance after fighting on the marches of Doriath.  I expect his clothing was worn and he had, by then, grown a beard and looked rather wild.  Until then he was clean shaven.
So, I need dark age chaps without beards.

[Vermis]

All quite correct, guys; but it's not going to stop my quotapalooza. I've typed my fingers to nubs - I'm gonna use more of what I typed them to nubs for. Besides, I have a few extra ideas to put to you...

The Noldor are indeed great in body and spirit...

In those days Elves and Men were of like stature and strength of body, but the Elves had greater wisdom, and skill, and beauty; and those who had dwelt in Valinor and looked upon the Powers as much surpassed the Dark Elves in these things as they in turn surpassed the people of mortal race. Only in the realm of Doriath, whose queen Melian was of the kindred of Valar, did the Sindar come near to match the Calaquendi of the Blessed Realm.

In many parts of the land the Noldor and Sindar became welded into one people, and spoke the same tongue; though this difference remained between them, that the Noldor had the greater power of mind and body, and were the mightier warriors and sages...

Then he saw that they were grey-cloaked but mail-clad under; and he marvelled, for they were fairer and more fell to look upon, because of the light of their eyes, than any of the Elven-folk that he had yet known.

The Noldor are tough...

Their bodies indeed were of the stuff of Earth, and could be destroyed; and in those days they were more like to the bodies of Men, since they had not so long been inhabited by the fire of their spirit, which consumes them from within in the courses of time. But Men were more frail, more easily slain by weapon or mischance, and less easily healed...

There Maedhros in time was healed; for the fire of life was hot within him, and his strength was of the ancient world, such as those possessed who were nurtured in Valinor. His body recovered from his torment and became hale...

But thereafter there was peace for many years, and no open assault from Angband, for Morgoth now perceived that the Orcs unaided were no match for the Noldor...

But Fingolfin was held overlord of all the Noldor, and Fingon after him, though their own realm was but the northern land of Hithlum; yet their people were the most hardy and valiant, most feared by the Orcs and most hated by Morgoth.

In the pits of Sauron Beren and Felagund lay, and all their companions were now dead; but Sauron purposed to keep Felagund to the last, for he perceived that he was a Noldo of great might and wisdom, and he deemed that in him lay the secret of their errand. But when the wolf came for Beren, Felagund put forth all his power, and burst his bonds; and he wrestled with the werewolf, and slew it with his hands and teeth; yet he himself was wounded to the death.

'You know the strength of Men,' he said. 'As for me, I am of the Noldor, and long must be the hunger and cold the winter that shall slay the kin of those who passed the Grinding Ice...'

'... But the Elves do not weary, and they do not die save by great hurt. From wounds and griefs that would slay Men they may be healed...'

Although...

Then Beren sprang from before Celegorm full upon the speeding horse of Curufin that had passed him; and the Leap of Beren is renowned among Men and Elves. He took Curufin by the throat from behind, and hurled him backward, and they fell to the ground together... Then Beren throttled Curufin... Then Luthien rising forbade the slaying of Curufin; but Beren despoiled him of his gear and weapons, and took his knife, Angrist... Then Beren lifting Curufin flung him from him, and bade him now walk back to his noble kinsfolk, who might teach him to turn his valour to worthier use.

Beren pretty much pushed over one of the sons of Fëanor and took his lunch money. Arguable since Beren was one of Tolkien's favourites, and Curufin was the villain in this situation. But there's also Túrin...

And he clove Saeros' shield, and then they fought together with swift blades. But Túrin had been long in a hard school, and had grown as agile as any Elf, but stronger. He soon had the mastery...

And yes, the Noldor are rash; the Noldor get angry:

Then the hearts of the Noldor grew hot, and their captains wished to assail their foes upon the plain; but Húrin spoke against it, and bade them beware of the guile of Morgoth, whose strength was always greater than it seemed.
 
But the Captain of Morgoth in the west had been commanded to draw out Fingon swiftly from his hills by whatever means he could... With them they brought Gelmir son of Guilin, that lord of Nargothrond whom they had captured in the Bragollach... And they hewed off Gelmir's hands and feet, and his head last, within sight of the Elves, and left him.
  By ill chance, at that place in the outworks stood Gwindor of Nargothrond, the brother of Gelmir. Now his wrath was kindled to madness, and he leapt forth on horseback, and many riders with him; and they pursued the heralds and slew them, and drove on deep into the main host. And seeing this all the host of the Noldor was set on fire, and Fingon put on his white helm and sounded his trumpets, and all the host of Hithlum leapt forth from the hills in sudden onslaught. The light of the drawing of the swords of the Noldor was like a fire in a field of reeds...

... you won't like them when they get angry...

Dagor-nuin-Giliath it is named, the Battle-under-Stars, for the Moon had not yet risen; and it is renowned in song. The Noldor, outnumbered and taken at unawares, were yet swiftly victorious; for the light of Aman was not yet dimmed in their eyes, and they were strong and swift, and deadly in anger, and their swords were long and terrible.

Maedhros did deeds of surpassing valour, and the Orcs fled before his face; for since his torment upon Thangorodrim his spirit burned like a white fire within, and he was as one that returns from the dead. Thus the great fortress upon the Hill of Himring could not be taken...

Then Fingolfin beheld (as it seemed to him) the utter ruin of the Noldor... And filled with wrath and despair he mounted upon Rochallor his great horse and rode forth alone. And none might restrain him. He passed over Dor-nu-Fauglith like a wind amid the dust, and all that beheld his onset fled in amaze, thinking that Oromë himself was come: for a great madness of rage was upon him, so that his eyes shone like the eyes of the Valar.

The Easterlings of Ulfang's house sure don't:

They set a great price upon his head; but they did not dare come to his hiding-place, even with strength of men, for they feared the Elven-folk, and shunned the caves where they had dwelt.

But they dared not yet lay hands on the Lady of Dor-lómin, or thrust her from her house; for the word ran among them that she was perilous, and a witch who had dealings with the white-fiends: for so they named the Elves, hating them, but fearing them more. For this reason they also feared and avoided the mountains, in which many of the Eldar had taken refuge...
 
Morwen he had seen once, when he rode to her house on a foray; but a great dread of her had seized him. He thought that he had looked in the fell eyes of a white-fiend, and he was filled with a mortal fear lest some evil should overtake him...

I might stop just short of suggesting that folk paint their Noldor with glowing eyes. But ruleswise I don't know if I'd stop at offensive heavy foot and the wild charge of elite riders - there are the possibilities of mystical armour to represent their toughness; hatred of orcs to represent their rashness; and given the reaction of orcs and easterlings (their most common foes), perhaps Noldor should cause fear!

That'd make for a small, tough force, which seems appropriate, although the combination of rules would take elite foot and offensive heavy foot over the ten-point limit, much less allow room for other individual quirks. So the toughness (and valour, and so-on) of Noldor might also be represented by reduced-model units. Shiny-armoured bellicose foot could be used for wild charging heavy infantry, rather than slapping the extra point for hatred on offensive heavy foot. The stats might also suit the Noldor habit of going "Hack, slash, kill, slay! Oh, er, there are more orcs here than we thought..." As the book says, hatred might be best left off missile troops, too.
Fear... I like the idea of fear on Noldor. I think I'd use it myself if I ever get around to First-Age Dragon Rampant. But, like the other thoughts, YMMV.

[Ethelred the Almost Ready]

The mightiest of men could, indeed, defeat an elf lord. I don't think they would best the greatest of the elves (Feanor, Finrod etc).  Both Turin and Beren were driven by fate (although this somewhat contradicts the idea that, unlike elves, men were free from fate) and this made them greater than would otherwise be the case.
I agree that fear and mystical armour could be applied, or perhaps orcs could be made fearful.
I would only make orcs light foot, not because they lack armour, but because of their inferior stature.
As far as points limits, I don't worry about this for Middle Earth gaming. 
How would you represent Glaurung within the normal points limits, or Smaug (in the Third Age - greater warbeast, flying, fear would not be unreasonable, flame breath, deserves to have cunning - already 14 points)?
A great Noldo lord might be elite foot, fear, possibly missile and wizardling would not be unreasonable, and are likely to have a blessed weapon - 12 points.

[Charlie_]

Thanks for these Silmarillion quotes, Vermis. It's been a while since I've read it, but it's all coming back to me and I think I might pick it up again sometime soon! Soom real magic in that book. The one event that I will always remember is Fingolfin's duel with Morgoth, when the king of the eagles (Thorondor, is it?) swoops in and rakes Morgoth's face. Truly epic!

[Ethelred the Almost Ready]

Thanks for these Silmarillion quotes, Vermis. It's been a while since I've read it, but it's all coming back to me and I think I might pick it up again sometime soon! Soom real magic in that book. The one event that I will always remember is Fingolfin's duel with Morgoth, when the king of the eagles (Thorondor, is it?) swoops in and rakes Morgoth's face. Truly epic!

Sorry, Vermis.  I should also thank you for all the quotes. 
Charlie, I must be of a more malencholy disposition.  The thing I like about the Silmarillion is the tragedy of people who are essentially good and noble trapped in a fate that sees them do despicable acts and all their achievements are ultimately futile.  My favourite character is Turin - that might make me a sick individual!

[Hobgoblin]

Interesting stuff from all.

I would only make orcs light foot, not because they lack armour, but because of their inferior stature.

One tweak: mixed weapons. That way, you get the speed and the archery, but you loose the "wall of spears", which doesn't seem very orcish.

Then you can keep bellicose foot for the guards of a particularly nasty chief. For small orcs (which, in any age, don't seem to have been the main fighters), the "ravenous horde" profile seems appropriate.

[guitarheroandy]

 
How would you represent Glaurung within the normal points limits, or Smaug (in the Third Age - greater warbeast, flying, fear would not be unreasonable, flame breath, deserves to have cunning - already 14 points)?

Glaurung would be a Greater Warbeast with breath attack. He shouldn't fly, as he was not a winged fire-drake. He should at very least cause fear...

Smaug is more tricky because of his nigh-on-invulnerable armour... Not sure how one would represent him, or if indeed one would want to as he's almost indestructible in the book...

[Vermis]

No probs, Charlie. After my slight disappointment with Tolkien's Gateway, I'm having fun looking up what Tolkien actually wrote. I think this was the reading of the Silmarillion that clicked for me, where I didn't have to constantly remind myself of the geography, genealogy and timeline.

As far as points limits, I don't worry about this for Middle Earth gaming.  
How would you represent Glaurung within the normal points limits, or Smaug (in the Third Age - greater warbeast, flying, fear would not be unreasonable, flame breath, deserves to have cunning - already 14 points)?

Well, if we're ignoring restrictions... I'll forego the wall o' quotes for this one, but for Glaurung I agree with all you suggest. (Apart from Smaug's Flying, obviously) I'm also fairly impressed by the great reek he sends up when the Elves from Doriath are scouting Nargothrond, blinding and choking them, and sending their horses crazy. He pretty much nobbles most of them just by moving a few yards and taking a dip in the Narog! I'd think about giving him Wizardling with Befuddle Thee! and Dragon's Breath!, maybe Bog Thee! too. Maybe only when he's in contact with a piece of water terrain, although that first spell wouldn't be inappropriate for Glaurung whether he's in water or not.

Smaug is more tricky because of his nigh-on-invulnerable armour... Not sure how one would represent him, or if indeed one would want to as he's almost indestructible in the book...

I think the 'soft belly' stats of Greater Warbeasts suits Glaurung to a tee, but you're right about Smaug. On one hand, even Mystical Armour seems too little, but on the other, perhaps the delay offered by that rule - and even the first five strength points chopped out of him - represent his foes prodding around, searching for that bare armpit.
That, or use the Elite Riders entry for the extra defence, with Flying, Fear, and Mounted Missiles.

In either case I think I'd be fine with leaving off Cunning or Level-Headed for Smaug, and keeping Wild Charge. In the Third Age he's out for his own gratification - not carrying out Morgoth's or Sauron's schemes - is pretty (over?)confident in his invulnerability, and does seem to have a problem with his temper.

Sorry, Vermis.  I should also thank you for all the quotes.

No probs! With you and Hobgoblin here, at the least, I already knew I was teaching Grandmother to suck eggses.

Charlie, I must be of a more malencholy disposition.  The thing I like about the Silmarillion is the tragedy of people who are essentially good and noble trapped in a fate that sees them do despicable acts and all their achievements are ultimately futile.  My favourite character is Turin - that might make me a sick individual!

Agreed, though! I also feel for Maedhros and Maglor, at the end of it all. Wretched in their fortunes and hopeless in their oath, but still compelled by it, 'with weariness and loathing', to challenge even the host of the Valar for the Silmarils. They actually succeed, but for all the good it does them...

[Ethelred the Almost Ready]

Vermis, I agree with Glaurung having spells, but I would modify this to some degree.  Dragons breath if he enters water, befuddle thee would need to be at a closer range than 18" as it is the dragon's stare that beguiles people.

I have skimmed through a few sections of the Silmarillion in the last few days and teh first chapter of The Unfinished Tales - about Tuor as I recalled there was a lot of description of the elves arms and armour.  I had thought that the armour left at Nevrast by Turgon was armour based on that from Aman (ie before the change to mail) but that proved to be a false recollection. 
What is interesting is the shield at Nevrast was described as being long and tapering and unfamiliar to Tuor (his only contact with elves had been with Sindar).  From this I take it that Sindar used smaller and likely round shields (as I suppose a heater could also be described at tapering and an oval shield as long).  Noldor, it seems, using a kite shield.
I will even go as far to assume that the men of Hador also used a kite shield, although Tuor was born in the year of the Nirnaeth Anoediad and the arms and armour of the men of Hador would not have been seen for many years by the time he was old enough to start thinking of war.

There are several references to axes being the weapon of the Grey Elves (Sindar). 
Noldor seem to prefer the sword and spear.

As a further argument for Noldor to have fear as a characteristic: " ... and he marvelled, for they were fairer and more fell to look upon, because of the light of their eyes, than any of the Elven-folk that he had yet known".

 

[Ethelred the Almost Ready]

I may be wrong about men being unbearded.  Although there is nothing to state that they wore beards, likewise there is nothing to say they were clean shaven.  I believed part of the rebuke that Saeros levelled at Turin was possibly because he was unshaven, but this episode is described well in the Unfinished Tales. We are told that his hair was unkempt and his grey cloak was "stained with the weather". 
Saeros: " Doubless, Man of Hithlum, you came in haste to this table, and may be excused your ragged cloak; but you have no need to leave your head untended as a thicket of brambles.  And perhaps if your ears were uncovered you would hear better what is said to you".  No mention of a beard.  Of interest, Turin is criticised for having hair covering his ears - did the Eldar have short hair or did they sweep it back from their ears?

[Ethelred the Almost Ready]

Three posts in a row on my own thread.  I'm sure this is poor form; my apologies.
As far as Uruk Hai, or their equivalent in the First Age: "But the woodmen were worsted, for these Orcs were of a fell breed, fierce and cunning."

[Hobgoblin]

Three posts in a row on my own thread.  I'm sure this is poor form; my apologies.

Not at all! Keep 'em coming!

As far as Uruk Hai, or their equivalent in the First Age: "But the woodmen were worsted, for these Orcs were of a fell breed, fierce and cunning."

Good one! That's an excellent addition to the list.

I think that when you take all these snippets together, you get a very clear picture: that "great soldier-orcs" were created by Morgoth (in the First Age), Sauron (in the Second and Third Ages) and Saruman (at the end of the Third Age). The overthrow of each coincides with the destruction of the great bulk of their soldiery, leaving the smaller, "non-frontline" orcs to persist into other ages.

[Vermis]

Vermis, I agree with Glaurung having spells, but I would modify this to some degree.  Dragons breath if he enters water, befuddle thee would need to be at a closer range than 18" as it is the dragon's stare that beguiles people.

I can see a fan supplement in the making - Balrog Rampant?

What is interesting is the shield at Nevrast was described as being long and tapering and unfamiliar to Tuor (his only contact with elves had been with Sindar).  From this I take it that Sindar used smaller and likely round shields (as I suppose a heater could also be described at tapering and an oval shield as long).  Noldor, it seems, using a kite shield.

There are several references to axes being the weapon of the Grey Elves (Sindar). 
Noldor seem to prefer the sword and spear.

Sindar axes - I noticed! There's the wardens of Doriath who destroy an orc-legion in Brethil (with the help of some Haladin), the axe-armed Sindar guards of Gondolin's bronze gate, and a few other references. Although Doriath wardens at the northern marches - Beleg and Túrin at least - seem to prefer swords, and Thingol offered Túrin a place among his 'Knights of the Sword'. Mounted knights? Foot knights?

What difference axe-armed Sindar make in Dragon Rampant, I don't know. I'm slotting some of their spiritual descendants - WFB High Elf white lions - in as bellicose foot, but it doesn't seem too comfortable a fit for Sindar. Little evidence that they're particularly wild and abandoned in their axe-swinging, for one thing.

I agree that since the shape of a tapered shield is 'strange to his eyes', the Sindar who brought up Tuor wouldn't have used them. Though the Noldor didn't use tapered shields exclusively - the guards of Gondolin's gold gate (not mentioned to be Sindar, like the bronze gate guards, but absence of proof...) have round shields. They're all archers too. I wonder if that makes a difference, but I have trouble seeing how.

[Ethelred the Almost Ready]

I may end up with multiple postings one after the other.
Taking in the ideas of others on this thread:
Forces of Morgoth:
Orcs - Light Foot, hatred (elves), missile
Orcs - Bellicose Foot
Trolls - either Bellicose Foot, shiny armour + possibly fear; or Heavy Foot (slow and dumb, get in a tangle when in woods), offensive, fear.  Both options would be reduced figure units.

Wargs - lesser warbeasts, cunning, fear vs cavalry.

Wolf riders - a little harder to figure, possibly just add "spore attack" to represent archery.

Werewolves - I feel these are separate from wargs, greater in size, more evil and more "magical" in nature.  Possibly lesser warbeasts with venomous added for extra bite!

Balrogs - really depends on whether you believe they were winged or not. Greater warbeasts, fear, again, possibly venomous to account for the added damage of flame.

As this is a skirmish game there is a place for giant spiders and wraiths (Taur-nu-Fuin was said to be filled with evil spirits and became even worse once Sauron fled there).  Using venomous for the werewloves seems a pity as spiders would also be warbeasts with venomous. 

Although this touches on the nature of the Noldor, I will put a suggestion here as I believe it might capture some of the impetuosity of these elves.
Instead of giving them Hatred towards orcs (ie a compulsary wild charge against these) I wonder about the orcs have a special rule.  Pay 1 point to have captured Noldor.  They can elect to slay the captives (in some despicable way) and this causes any Noldor, within range, to be subject to testing for wild charge in their next turn.

[Ethelred the Almost Ready]

Elves or possibly more correctly, Eldar (not Quendi as I am not including the Avari)

To represent the greater strength and training of the elves I am considering using "Slayer" quite liberally.  Is this too much?  As orcs, as proposed above, cannot be heavy foot this may be a big enough difference in quality.  Also, it may mean there are not enough other characteristics to make heroes distinctive enough.
If Eldar are only heavy foot and orcs are light foot, where does this leave the likes of the men of Hador and Bëor?


Noldor Infantry: Heavy Foot, Offensive, Slayer (orcs), fear.  See the post about Morgoth's forces, but possibly also add hatred (orcs).

The variation here would be the forces of Gondolin who seem to have been, as a field army, spear armed and perhaps better on the defence.  These would not have the offensive characteristic (and therefore use wall of spears) and possibly shouldn't have hatred (but might still be appropriate if using the alternative roll of the orcs being able to goad them into rashness).

Sindar Infantry: Heavy Foot, slayer (orcs), but do not have fear.  This may make them too close to the Noldor in capabilities, but they are are still mightier than other Moriquendi and men.

"Rangers".  The forces of Nargothrond and  Doriath and most likely Dorthonion did a lot of fighting in woods.  For these troops I would suggest Elite Foot, missile, slayer (orcs) and Fear if they are Noldor.

Archers:  Light archers, fear (if Noldor), sharp shooter (if Sindar or Nandor/Laiquendi).  Do we also allow slayer?
There seem to be plenty of references to mounted archers, but I think I need to give more thought about how these should look.

Clearly there would be plenty of heroes that need customising and would be single figure units.  Wizardling would be a reasonably common addition.

The Edain of the houses of Hador and Bëor fought with the elven hosts and are easily added here.  I think these are mainly heavy foot, without any special rules.  Again, they need a smattering of heroes.  Probably use skirmishers rather than formed units of archers.

The Haladin were quite different from the other Edain and need more consideration.  Probably mainly light foot and archers.