What differentiates Italians from English (mid-late 15th cent)?

[dan97526]

I'm in the planning stages of bulding an Italian Army ca 1480 using Perry plastics and Italian heads.  I don't want them to look like War of the Roses English in slightly gaudier colors, but looking around that's pretty much the impression I have.  OTOH maybe that, without longbows and with the addition of a few turbans and more handgonnes, is actually a fair characterization.

That said, if I wanted to ensure that my army looks distinctly Italian what can I do?  Plain advice or sources most welcome.

If this is more appropriate to Workbench please move or delete it with my blessing.

Thanks!

[traveller]

I guess Perrys range for Italians 1450-1500 would be a good start for inspiration 

https://www.perry-miniatures.com/product_info.php?cPath=23_64&products_id=2752

[Mick_in_Switzerland]

Italians have a lot more cavalry, including light cavalry.
The infantry would have crossbows and handgonnes and also light infantry with swords and shields.

As traveller suggests, Perry have a lot of specific Italian army packs.
https://www.perry-miniatures.com/index.php?cPath=23_64&page=2&osCsid=vq49rdm1dttchskr8f57fkhr41

You can also have a wagon full of priests
https://www.perry-miniatures.com/product_info.php?cPath=23_64&products_id=2748&osCsid=vq49rdm1dttchskr8f57fkhr41

[Captain Blood]

I don't want them to look like War of the Roses English in slightly gaudier colors, but looking around that's pretty much the impression I have.  OTOH maybe that, without longbows and with the addition of a few turbans and more handgonnes, is actually a fair characterization.

That's pretty much what I did 

I think it's mainly a question of choosing the right plastic parts...

These pics of my Milanese may or may not give you some ideas to build on... Not saying they are especially historically accurate, but I think they look Italian-ish...

[Berg]

I am slowly working on a bunch of italian-ish miniatures using mostly perry plastic. There are some pictures and stuff on my blog (that really needs another update as i have painted a number of miniatures since the last update.

http://figurspel.blogspot.se/

/Berg

[Ethelred the Almost Ready]

"What differentiates Italians from English"

A small moustache and a funny accent (take that whichever way you like).

[Atheling]

Stunning work Richard 

[Too Bo Coo]

Better food?

[pws]

Surely not the "wagon full of priests", the Carroccio is something that belongs to Communal Wars 12th/13th Century, always nice for camp or a diorama but not used in battle.
Fancy helmets add-ons like plumes or the "Perry" heads, it depends of what "italians" do you want to depict, Italy was far to be a Country.

Heavy cavalry yes, but also light/medium cavalry each lancia (the basic unit) is composed by cav/inf.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condottieri

As in Captain Blood post each Condottiero had his own divisa (colours) worn by his men, in my pics Red/White as in this frescos form Colleoni's Castle
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Castello_di_Malpaga

If I may suggest a live show: next monday 16th august (19:00 Rome time) there'll be the second run of the "Palio di Siena" (two runs each summer), if you have SAT tv look for Rai 1/Rai 2/Rai 3** see the pageant before the run... they look like those!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palio_di_Siena
**With Olympic games I don't know on which of these 3 channels will be, or just google  videos/images ;-)

I suggest to chose the one you like most and stay on that color scheme for all the army if you play large skirmish like Lion rampant.    
I did my venetians like these: http://pippoweb.blogspot.it/p/colleoni-condotta.html


Ciao

[Too Bo Coo]

Your horses are amazing, do you have any tutorials?

[pws]

Your horses are amazing, do you have any tutorials?

Thank you.
I didn't use any particular technique for them, my tabletop quality:
1- base color;
2- wash;
3- base color (a little diluited);
4- base color + white (or lighter color, it depends on the base) for highlight layer/s;

Ciao

[Druzhina]

Some historical images of Italian Soldiers:
Fresco in the Chapel of San Fiorenzo by Bastia di Mondovi, 1472
Another fresco in the Chapel of San Fiorenzo by Bastia di Mondovi, 1472
Miracle of St Bernard by Perugino, 1473
The Betrayal - Detail of Last Supper by Cosimo Rosselli, 1481-82, Sistine Chapel, Vatican City
Detail of soldiers in 'Delivery of the keys' by Pietro Perugino, 1481-1483
The Pilgrims' Arrival in Cologne, the Life of St Ursula, by Vittore Carpaccio, 1490-96
Martyrdom of the Pilgrims, the Life of St Ursula, by Vittore Carpaccio, 1490-96

Mirror Site
Fresco in the Chapel of San Fiorenzo by Bastia di Mondovi, 1472
Another fresco in the Chapel of San Fiorenzo by Bastia di Mondovi, 1472
Miracle of St Bernard by Perugino, 1473
The Betrayal - Detail of Last Supper by Cosimo Rosselli, 1481-82, Sistine Chapel, Vatican City
Detail of soldiers in 'Delivery of the keys' by Pietro Perugino, 1481-1483
The Pilgrims' Arrival in Cologne, the Life of St Ursula, by Vittore Carpaccio, 1490-96
Martyrdom of the Pilgrims, the Life of St Ursula, by Vittore Carpaccio, 1490-96

Druzhina
Italian Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers

[Malatesta]

Although in Italian, the site "Stemmi e Impresa" run by Massimo Predonzani (an author of books on the heraldry and battles of the 15th and 16th centuries), contains an extraordinary number of illustrations of Italians during the period you seek to model: http://stemmieimprese.it/

Click on the various articles ("articoli") to see many of the illustrations taken from Predonzani's books.

[Malatesta]

And then there are reenactment groups, such as: http://www.famaleonis.com/

[Johnp4000]

I remember watching a wargame in Rome representing a late 15th century Italian city clash, the only differences I could see was that the Barbute helmet and that helmet that almost looks like the ancient Macedonian Pikeman's helmet were popular choices and seemed to be a unique Italian style compared to the standard WOTR troops.