The end and new beginnings of Dredd

[jetengine]

I'm kind of annoyed because I've just realised I really want the Wasteland Desperados and Renegade Robot sets for Rogue Stars

[Ulfhednar]

I've been searching through what's still available where so know, those two box sets are still available to buy on Ebay, and from the same trader who'll give a discount if you buy them together, they're cheaper there right now than their normal list price was at Warlord, but don't expect them to be in stock long.

[n815e]

Interesting quote from Warlord, Ulfhednar.
On the kickstarter, Mongoose have said that the moulds are being destroyed.

[jetengine]

.....so the whole kickstarter was fucking pointless then.

[twrchtrwyth]

Interesting quote from Warlord, Ulfhednar.
On the kickstarter, Mongoose have said that the moulds are being destroyed.

Why do people feel the need to do this?

[Ulfhednar]

There's obviously something very weird going on, there were new figures for this range being released on the Warlord site after they'd sold out of everything else. I went back on it after everything had sold out to surf through the pages to reference stuff I was looking to buy on Ebay, and 2 or 3 pages into the sold out listings they'd added a load of new ABC Warriors that had already sold out, but also added a new Citi-Def Unit (3 infantry, 2 CD soldiers 1 with samurai sword another with chainsaw, and a third Jaeger sniper) which I managed to buy the last 2 sets of, and a Robo-Doc that I bought the last one of - and still at sale prices. (edit - and while I assume they were sent to kickstarters, I don't think those figures were ever for general sale on the Mongoose site, whatever (if anything) that suggests about whose doing the manufacturing / has the moulds and is in real control).

And for sale on Ebay right now they (Mongoose) have got a painted studio miniature of a female Judge with 2 lawgivers that's never been released, and also selling a painted studio Nero Narcus, and a painted studio Medi Judge on Lawmaster with sidecar (all kickstarter stuff never put on general sale). And that painted car and the Prowler Tank.

I guess it's tied in with the Rogue Trooper kickstarter (they sold off the studio painted Nort & Souther unit last week), I think someone's come in to take the whole thing over, maybe Mongoose have just cashed in cuz it's really worth something now? Can't believe this whole range is just going to vanish, it has too much value and potential.

[Andym]

Personally I thought the range was hit or miss anyway! The Prowl tank was good, but waaaay too expensive. The judge car thing was horrendous! You do know Foundry still do 2000AD miniatures? There's also a lot of proxies out there. The 2000AD universe is sooo big that you can pretty much add a whole lot of other stuff that would fit in. Maybe some else with the license will do it some justice!

[dieselmonkey]

Why do people feel the need to do this?

Contractual reasons usually. They no longer have a legal right to produce the models, so no longer have a legal right to have the moulds. I've seen it in non-wargaming industry before as a contractual obligation. 

[Ulfhednar]

It seems to be the case that Mongoose had moulds, and Warlord have the same moulds too and they both manufactured. (Certainly, Warlord put out latest figures for sale like the Citi-Def reinforcements last week when Mongoose didn't, which suggests Warlord are manufacturing themselves and not reliant on Mongoose). It seems Mongoose are definitely out of it so makes sense they'd destroy their moulds, but it doesn't mean Warlord (or the Brand owners) don't also have copies of the moulds / master figures, so things could be picked up again.

Re the figures being a bit hit and miss, some are but so it is with all ranges. I've been out of figures for decades and just getting back into it now, and having taken a good look at everything around these days, this range is arguably as good as anything, like old Citadel Runequest quality. It has real character, the figures look like they're in real motion like in the comic books rather than just posing for photo's like so many 'perfect' modern figures do. It's certainly much better than Citadels previous Dredd effort. Wargames Foundry have some good 2000AD figures, some are better than Warlords, but some are worse and frankly just bad (like their SCS Judge, whose helmet is too tall and makes his head look like an egg).

And I bought Mongoose's studio painted Rogue Trooper Nort & Souther units from the kickstart and they are seriously extremely good. I'm certain this must just be a break due to 2000AD license issues and the whole lot (or at least a good proportion of it) will be back, hopefully on a more mainstream pro basis.

[dieselmonkey]

It seems to be the case that Mongoose had moulds, and Warlord have the same moulds too and they both manufactured. (Certainly, Warlord put out latest figures for sale like the Citi-Def reinforcements last week when Mongoose didn't, which suggests Warlord are manufacturing themselves and not reliant on Mongoose). It seems Mongoose are definitely out of it so makes sense they'd destroy their moulds, but it doesn't mean Warlord (or the Brand owners) don't also have copies of the moulds / master figures, so things could be picked up again.

Re the figures being a bit hit and miss, some are but so it is with all ranges. I've been out of figures for decades and just getting back into it now, and having taken a good look at everything around these days, this range is arguably as good as anything, like old Citadel Runequest quality. It has real character, the figures look like they're in real motion like in the comic books rather than just posing for photo's like so many 'perfect' modern figures do. It's certainly much better than Citadels previous Dredd effort. Wargames Foundry have some good 2000AD figures, some are better than Warlords, but some are worse and frankly just bad (like their SCS Judge, whose helmet is too tall and makes his head look like an egg).

And I bought Mongoose's studio painted Rogue Trooper Nort & Souther units from the kickstart and they are seriously extremely good. I'm certain this must just be a break due to 2000AD license issues and the whole lot (or at least a good proportion of it) will be back, hopefully on a more mainstream pro basis.

I vaguely recall Mongoose saying Warlord had taken over production when it first happened, so it wouldn't surprise me if they just sent all the masters and moulds over, rather than duplicating the lot and keeping a set. Personally, I reckon these are unlikely to see the light of day again, as it's almost certain that someone else with deeper pockets has got the rights to the licence, and if that happens, they almost certainly won't want a third-hand range that doesn't match their own style.

I backed the Dredd KS campaign for a few hundred quid (four years on, and still waiting!) on the back of their initial greens. I have to say I was thoroughly disappointed with the quality level of a lot of the stuff that has turned up. I'm still tempted to sell the lot and start re-buying a bunch of old Citadel Dredd stuff, apart from the fact that the reselling BIN-twats on eBay seem to think they're made of platinum or something.

[Ulfhednar]

Yes they charge crazy money for old figures, there are bargains but not everything on Ebay is genuine, I have seen some for sale where people have made new moulds from leads and recast (in one case checked with the original manufacturer and they confirmed it was a copy). You have to really study the detail and mould lines in the photo, the metal slotta tab for correct lettering (it's often erased on copies) and the sellers other auctions, and make a judgement if it's in such good condition and / or a bargain, why / how, and if it's lost detail, is it just worn, bad photo, or is it a recast that never had it. Can't always rely on sellers rep as many buyers are young and don't know how old stuff should be, others just over-assume.

I appreciate some of the Mongoose Dredd stuff was just bad by being out of scale, like apparently the surfers and Cadets etc, and Mongoose supplied ones seemed to have had more of an issue with production quality (compared to Warlord where I've had all mine and all have been perfect) but that aside and with the rest (most is in scale and I think all the main stuff is) I guess figure style / preference is a real thing and some will like what others don't. But some stuff was undeniably really good and best ever versions (like their Lawmasters, Citadels were junk) but regardless, the range is definitely in demand.

It sold out pretty much everywhere (and fast, and even slightly over-priced stuff), the painted studio figures Mongoose have been selling off on Ebay have been going for crazy money. I picked up the painted Nort, Souther KS units, and the original GI, Nort & Souther 3 pack for reasonable money as it was among the first to be sold off and not many were on it then. But the painted Dredd figures since then have been going for loads, the single painted Dredd (hands on hips, from the blister with Walter the Wobot, but sold off on its own without the painted Walter), just went for £65 + shipping. But then they also just sold off a Comms tower made out of margarine tubs and yogurt pot lids for about £20 too. And a cardboard box, that they got another £20 for by calling it a Mega-City One Tower block. And they're selling Traveller stuff off. Maybe Mongoose consider it mission accomplished, loads of cash in the bank and their pet gaming projects made real, they're selling up and retiring?

Going forward, if the range isn't continued, I can't see anyone ever going as far with the spread / depth of the range again, with things like Medi & Tech judge lawmasters, Holo-Judges, odd characters like Bat Burglar & Stan Lee, Vatican Judge etc. Will be worth as much if not more than the Citadel stuff one day, it will be rarer cuz not as much was sold and it's more delicate than theirs were. I'm sure though someone will pick up (at least some of) the range. If it's not a proper project I bet Warlord would still want it, or Wargames Foundry would to augment what they already have (and they do carry old abandoned ranges like some Citadel historic). I reckon though from that comment of Warlords, they're probably intending or at least hoping to take over entirely.

[robh]

I still think that given the way the gaming market is moving post Kickstarter, the future of the Dredd gaming franchise will be a glossy boardgame hybrid with plastic figures. Probably with expansions for themed perp gangs and characters. Think Dredd themed Zombicide.

[dieselmonkey]

Going forward, if the range isn't continued, I can't see anyone ever going as far with the spread / depth of the range again, with things like Medi & Tech judge lawmasters, Holo-Judges, odd characters like Bat Burglar & Stan Lee, Vatican Judge etc. Will be worth as much if not more than the Citadel stuff one day, it will be rarer cuz not as much was sold and it's more delicate than theirs were. I'm sure though someone will pick up (at least some of) the range. If it's not a proper project I bet Warlord would still want it, or Wargames Foundry would to augment what they already have (and they do carry old abandoned ranges like some Citadel historic). I reckon though from that comment of Warlords, they're probably intending or at least hoping to take over entirely.

Personally for me, the 'unique' characters were a waste of time and effort, as I said earlier in the thread, it was a painter's range, not a gamer's one. How much gaming use does a Stan Lee, or a Vatican Judge really get? Really all I wanted out of the range was the main JD characters, then a bunch of perps, Citi-Def and civs. I really want to play a Block War game, but there's only half a dozen suitable models, how useless is that, when it's a defining feature of Mega City life?

As for Foundry, they won't do anything about anything, they're a textbook case of ineptitude in the wargaming industry.

[Tactalvanic]

I still think that given the way the gaming market is moving post Kickstarter, the future of the Dredd gaming franchise will be a glossy boardgame hybrid with plastic figures. Probably with expansions for themed perp gangs and characters. Think Dredd themed Zombicide.

+1 That

I fully suspect, as with previous ranges, that a company, such as warlord will merrily continue to produce product that they can, when the dust settles. If they don't have the direct licence as such, they will wait to see which proxy stuff they can get away with as proxies.

Meanwhile, with the changes the last few years of ownership of the comics, IP, licences etc, I think the most likely issue here is the lack of information, namely no company has clearly stepped forward yet with press releases saying "ITS Ours Now".

I would not be surprised if in the next few short months we start seeing teasers for "new", "re-imagined" etc game releases related to the IP by a company and the gap or lack of info we have now is simply them getting ready to start that.

In fact as it seems the most popular thing of late, to catch more than just our hobby crowd, board games with expansion packs and plastic miniatures by the bucket-load (as Monolith are currently showing us). If done right and well, that honestly would be great.

Maybe just maybe we will finally see it done properly by someone with the right experience even via kickstarter if necessary.

To be honest if Monolith themselves turned round and said, after we finish our current KS we are doing Mega-city Wars/block wars Justice Dept, 2000AD related board game, I would be throwing my money at them even faster.

[Ulfhednar]

Look at ThreeA though, who've pushed Mezco out of the Dredd license and taken over 2000AD 1/12th scale entirely, and have been given a monopoly on it at 1/6th scale. Mezco are like the 1/12th scale equivalent to the plastic board gaming you're suggesting (their last Dredd was knicknamed Disco Dredd cuz of his spandex suit), they've been binned cuz it seems the Brand owner wants something more real / cult.

ThreeA are an arthouse brand, like the Gorillaz videos, it's supposed to be cult and cool. I think the fact the brand owners going in so deep with them suggests they have proper plans for Dredd that are hopefully more serious / cultish than plastic board games.

edit - yes I agree it doesn't need those extra characters, I've bought very few, but they're good for roleplay gaming Dredd, and they're interesting figures to mix into a skirmish wargame to add a bit of 2000AD character & comedy. But re proper wargaming, I think that's where it was heading and why Warlord might take over. I wasn't part of it but read up on it recently, the end of the Rogue Trooper kickstarter had something about Dredd miniatures game Justice Department combat units. The most recent releases in the range were the Citi-Def reinforcements. I'm hoping at least some, the more military side of the range will return (I still need the East Meg reinforcements, the Judges with heavy weapons blisters, and a couple more Sentinels, they've been sold out all along and if they came up on ebay they'd likely be stupidly expensive). And yes Wargames Foundry are what they are, but it's because they are so successful they don't need to try and only do what they enjoy, they could do with this range (they don't even have lawmasters), I wouldn't be surprised if it is being ditched they'd be interested and would want to take it on, it's properly fun and Brit.